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Truth, Justice and Human Rights
in the Middle East


Feedbacks

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For past feedbacks click HERE

NOTE: Due to the large volume of feedbacks, especially following the al-Aqsa (September 2000) Uprising, and due to the limited resources of this site, not all feedbacks will be printed/responded to anymore. Long feedbacks, especially from a single visitor, or feedbacks making similar argument to ones responded to before, might be truncated and/or omitted altogether


    1 Feb 2001 sam i'm worried about your site it hasnt been updated since 10 dec 2000 and there are large chunks missing from the feedback can you check in regularly so we know you're alive? regards mark
Thank you Mark for your concern. Not sure what parts are missing from the feedback. I just looked, and they're still there. --Sam

    24 Jan 2001 Despite your lame denials, it is obvious that you are a Jew-hating racist with Nazi sympathies. You publish Jew-hating letters (there is no meaningful distinction between Anti-semitism and Anti-zionism anyway Norman Finkelstein, Israel Shahak and others have made clear their complete contempt for ALL jews as a people and their desire that they be extinguished). You would no doubt love it if once your pals got into power, that they committed genocide against all Jewish people, including your deluded supporters. Then you would finally be able to complete Hitler's work, which your beloved MUFTI was unable to accomplish in the 1940s. >Despite your lame denials, it is obvious that you are a Jew-hating >racist with Nazi sympathies.
Is it at all possible that what I say here bothered you, and your inability to respond to my claims rationally and logically, is what made you label me as such? Next, please specify what "Jew-hating letters" you saw on this site. Also you need to show where you found that Finkelstein, Shahak and others as haveing "made clear their complete contempt for ALL Jews as a people and their desire that they be extinguished)". That's slipping too much into the absurd .. a last straw measure it seems, that's symptomatic to blind supporters of Israel. Do you have anything to add aside from the Mufti case? It is hard for the world, and for me even, to accept that the ENTIRE Zionist cause is built on this single Palestinian individual (not to mention the Israel-accepted-partion-but- the-Arabs-rejected-it justification) -- an issue which is brought up again and again by supporters of Israel, as though it justifies or even explains what Israel later did to the Palestinians in 1948! I thought Zionism had more to it as an ideology than simply "THE MUFTI". Nevertheless, I have responded to the mufti question several times here. Ben Gurion relied on the Mufti's extreme REACTIONS and RHETORIC -- to Jewish immigration and slow disposession of the Palestinians! "Rely on the Mufti" became his motto, used to justify Zionist crimes against the Palestinians. Sam

    24 Jan 2001 Hi, I'm a regular visitor to your site. I wanted to ask you briefly for your help. I'm a student in a university which in the last 2 years has seen a dramatic increase in the number of Arab students, we're starting a new club with limited resources to raise awareness of Palestinian (and Arab) human rights violiations. One of the things we're planning immediately is a webpage, and I want my sources to be mostly western/Israeli like yours. So would you mind if used your webpage for information (all the articles and things)? And another thing, I know there's a zillion webpages and sites out there, but could you direct to me to other informative ones with credible sources such as yours about the Middle East and Palestine (other than the obvious sites that you use such as Haaretz and them)? Lastly, I really like the format of your page, so we might copy a few of your concepts if you don't mind, such as the quotes, easy to read which is good, and a feedback page. If its ok with you maybe we can even provide a link to your site and others, I know you don't email visitors, so I'll check to see when you reply to this feedback. I would really appreciate if you could help me out, since I found your site purely by coincidence to begin with and have been unable to find anymore quite as good, as complete, and as informative. Thank you for your time, I hope your page is on the internet forever (I've been using it on all sorts of political forums over the internet to make my point, CNN even banned me three times from posting messages), which is scary the more they control the internet and try to regulate it the more dangerous freedom of expression may become, just like in mainstream media. I hope the internet keeps its current degree of freedom of speech. Thanks
Feel free to use the info on this site as you please, the articles posted are not "mine" anyway; I merely collect them. If possible, though, provide a link and credit to this site. Thanks for your support. -- Sam

    24 Jan 2001 Dear Sam, I'm very sorry for wasting my precious time reading your site, but at the same time I can learn how some people can live with hatred instead of doing something productive with its live. This is exactly what people like you or Mr. Arafat are doing, thinking that hatred will give you a good way of living, and prosperity. I feel sorry for you, and continue like that because you'll reach god soon. I would recommend you to read Thomas Friedman, and then you will understand why all the arab world is making "potato chips" instead "chips of microprocessors". Regards, Jorge > some people can live with hatred instead of doing something productive with > its live
That's like describing all people who try to remember the holocaust against Jews or Jews who ask for reparations from the German government, as "Living with hatred" (for the Nazi). When I tell you about the murderous robber who killed my loved ones, took my house and possessions; a criminal who is well known, but was never punished (actually, he tricked many to think he's humane) how would you react? Do you really feel intelligent describing me as "filled with hatred for the killer/ robber"? I am here informing a misinformed world about what Israel did to the Palestinians --while covering itself with a humane facade-- and calling for correcting this wrong. Your reaction is largely a byproduct of Israel's PR industry -- one of the knee-jerk responses it disseminates to cover up for its crimes. Thomas Friedman is part of that industry, although he's one of the more subtle supporters of Israel, unlike Safire & Co. So when Friedman redicules the backwardness of the Arab world --after throwing a passing criticism of Israel to appear "balanced"-- how is that related to justice for the Palestinians .. justice that has been taken away by Israel? Or is that a diversion ploy, that supporters of Israel use? Sam

    21 Jan 2001 The Duluth, MN Loaves and Fishes Catholic Worker community recently used the Schwarzkopf quote, "I want every Iraqi soldier bleeding from every orifice," on a flyer we handed out. I'd like to know the source of that quote since it's not cited on your page, and i don't know you well enough to just trust you on it! i found this page through a search engine. thanks for your thorough, important work! mali [email protected]
That quote can be found in Ramsey Clark's "The Fire This Time" 1994 book introduction/forward. --Sam

    21 Jan 2001 Dear Sam: I am absolutely amazed at how well you put together your website. I have a suggestion that could make you completely delegitimize any Jewish claim to the Holy Land. Now we all know that the Zionist Jews have two justifications for their THEFT of Palestine: (1) The racial claim that they are all originally from Israel, and (2) the religious claim that they brutally confiscated Palestine because they were following the orders of God. I'm pretty sure you already know this, but just in case you didn't know, all the Jews in the world (except the Sephardic Jews who comprise only 10% of world Jewry) are originally from a non-Semitic, Turkic tribe called the Khazars, who converted to Judaism around at 740 AD. I strongly suggest you get a book called The Thirteenth Tribe, written by Arthur Koestler, a truely righteous anti-Zionist Jew (who was found murdered along with his wife in his London home. And despite clear evidence that it was murdered, the police passed it off as "suicide"). ! And this URL provides an excellent overview of Khazar history and their conversion: http://www.ummah.net/unity/race/khazars.html. Also about the "religious" claim to Israel, any truely religious Jew will tell you that he is against Israel, since they believe it should be gained by a miracle, and not by any military means whatsoever. This is a Jewish anti-Zionist website that i think you'll find very helpful: www.JewsNotZionists.org. I hope I made a significant contribution to your website. Thank you for your time.
Thanks for the links and info. Actually, most of them have already been on this site, almost since inception. Although I consider the Khazar case as secondary and somewhat irrelevant, I included it under miscellaneous section only as "interesting info".

    19 Jan 2001 Excellent site. I have some articles which may be of interest to you. One article is a speech by Benjamin Freedman, himself a Jew, from 1961. In the speech Freedman talks about how Germany gave refuge to Jews that were involved in the failed revolution in Russia in 1905. For their compassion the Germans were betrayed during WW1 by imperial zion. Having lost WW1 within two years Britain was approached by Zionists with an offer to bring America into the war in return for the British promise of Palestine for the Jews. Hence the Balfour Declaration. Freedman also mentions the World Jewish Congress declaring a worldwide economic war against Germany in 1933 and talks about the Kol Nidre pray that Jews make on the Day of Atonement. In that prayer, Jews enter into an agreement with God Almighty that any oath, vow, or pledge that they may make during the next twelve months shall be null and void. The oath shall not be an oath the vow shall not be a vow the pledge shall not be a pledge. They shall have no force or effect. And further, the Talmud teaches that whenever you take an oath, vow, or pledge, you are to remember the Kol Nidre prayer that you recited on the Day of Atonement, and you are exempted from fulfilling them. So much for any chance of a lasting peace agreement in Palestine. Can I interest you. Nabil T***
    15 Jan 2001 Usual fucking left-wing pro-Palestinian drivel! A Christian are you - forget the crusades? And maybe that's why you are linked to hezbollah? Your crapulous site ought to be shut down! Long live the Jewish state!! >Usual fucking left-wing pro-Palestinian drivel!
Does "left-wing" and "pro-Palestinian" equal "false"?
    >A Christian are you - forget the crusades?
Didn't realize that being Christian, and cheering the Crusades as one and the same! Just like, perhaps, being Jewish and supporting the "Jewish" State being totally different. If you call yourself Jewish does not mean you should cheer crimes committed by some who call themselves "Jews".
    >And maybe that's why you are linked to hezbollah?
Linked to Hizbollah? How so, please enlighten? Just because *A* Hizbollah site decided to put a link to my site, does not mean that I am "linked to Hizbollah", if that's what you're talking about.
    >Your crapulous site ought to be shut down!
Why? Because you're not equipped to handle, or be reminded of the horrible truth you support?
    >Long live the Jewish state!!
Long live human rights, which are in contradiction with Israel being a "Jewish state". Until all Israel's citizens are equal, and until the refugees forced out by Israel are allowed to return, and until Israel's occupation and humiliation of the Palestinians stops, there won't be peace in the middle East. Sam

    13 Jan 2001 sam i wrote in support of your website in july and i was just reading the other feedback and it's a good part of a good site - i noticed however that in a throw away line you say that "Jews are rich" in response to some schmock saying that Jews pay more taxes in the US than anyone else. It is true as you say, that Jews are the richest minority but to say "Jews are rich" is too much of a generalisation. still wishing you well mark
I agree with your observation, and as a result, corrected my generalization. --Sam

    7 Jan 2001 Very informative page! It seems that it took you very long to have it online, but why dont you have your own domain name, instead of hosting it in geocities? I would like to invite you to my homepage at the following URL: http://aldiar.com/israel Well done....I wish Arabs can take advantage of the Internet rather than spending thier time on chatting!!
Thank you for your support. I prefer the anonymity of geocities. --Sam

    4 Jan 2001 Sam, the palestinians have been wronged beyond belief. isrealis MUST give the palestians complete control of the west bank and the gaza strip, MUST partition jeruselam and give the palestian state soveriegnty over muslim holy sites, and MUST allow the lawful right of return for palestinian refugees driven from their land to retain even a shred of their national dignity. i also think that after the isrealis finally do, and they will, settle with the palestinians that they will face an internal civil war brought about by the devided nature of their society. however, i do not know that the current violence is the correct way to force the uncooperative isrealis into a settlement. for, if violince is to be used then the isrealis must be forced to incur higher casualty rates that would unacceptable currently the isreali public, government and military can sustain the kinds of casualties the isrealis have been receiving. there must be a higher loss of isreali life OR peaceful protest must be used, similar to that of the american civil rights movement in the 1950s-60s and the indian nationalist movement in the 1930s-40s. peaceful protests could include the blocking of roads by people lying down and other interruptions of infrastructure, the benefits of this would be to create positive publicity for the justified palestinain case. in my mind the anti-isreali movement must be a peaceful protest or an all out war to be successful. what do you think? a mixed race, aetheist, american citizen
Thank you for your supportive message. You pose a very good question. My general thoughts on it follow. The idea of a peaceful Palestinian resistance to occupation did occurr to me. It will sure be nice for more world support. But the situation here is not the same, as say, the Gandhi in India against the British case, and is certainly remote from resembling the civil rights movement case. What the Palestinians endure is not mere occupation and repression, in the traditional sense. It is, in my opinion, ethnic cleansing/"Judaization" in slow motion (following the two major ethnic cleansing campaigns of 1948 and 1967). Israeli leaders, such as "peace man" Rabin were frank enough to admit such -- creating miserable enough conditions that will evoke a "voluntary" Palestinians departure. This occupation has, furthermore, interferred with every level of Palestinian life. Unlike other, "traditional" occupation and settler colonialism, Israel's over Palestine included/s slow and gradual eradication of the locals. Every Palestinian has experienced/s the occupation in more than one way, on all civil life levels, and on a daily basis, (eg, the repeated humiliation at roadblocks, long bureaucratic process for house-building permits which are usually denied, etc). The occupation reached the personal level of every Palestinian household, a manifestation of Israel's slow encroachment on their land, property and livelihood in general. The humiliation, torture, imprisonment without trial, exploitation of labor, endless suffocating curfews, bombardment of towns, assassinations, being shot with the purpose of maiming, breaking of children's legs and arms' bones, dragged out of their homes and homes demolished in front of the eyes of the owners, endless confiscation of land, deprivation of water, urinating in/destruction of Palestinian cisterns which the latter placed on their roofs to collect much needed water, the denial of permits to built houses forever, the denial of well-digging permits, (while settlers nearby fill their pools and water their gardens), the massacres by "crazy" settlers of Palestinians, the pregnant women who died in ambulances waiting for long hours at Israeli check points, the cutting down of olive trees --the livelihood of many Palestinians-- by Israel, etc. Compounding the Palestinian agony is that Israel does all the above while wearing a "human right" facade, projecting an image of a "light unto nations", a nation working hard to fight "terrorism", a nation that's being vicitimized anew, by local savages. All these are images that are largely believed by the people of the world, who rely on TV and western/US press for their news sources. Most of the settlers (I am talking about all Israeli Jews) here, unlike traditional colonialism -- eg British over India -- do not have a country to go back to; they burned the bridges behind them --almost-- and placed themselves in the face of the locals, competing for the same land. They didn't simply come to devour the resources of the land and enslave the population, as in traditional colonialism. They came to LIVE there, in "THEIR" land! But, there were also, the usual similarities with traditional colonialism, however. The settlers were way more advanced than the locals, and well versed in PR and in understanding the importance of, and the ability to shape world public opinion, unlike the locals. So, the settlers' slow cleansing of the locals was beamed to the world as "holocaust survivors resisting further destruction," a benevolent resistance to terrorism of the crude and backward locals, an example for the world to follow of purity of arms, of making the desert bloom, and more of the plain'ol "civilizing mission" jargon of traditional colonialism. Under such conditions of constant pressure of humiliation and dispossession, that is slowly building up, the Palestinians are reacting like any normal being would in similar situation. They are exploding in response to pressure that has built up beyond human limitations. HOWEVER, that's not to say that the peaceful resistance avenue has not been explored by the Palestinians. It has actually been going on for ages, but we just don't hear about it; it simply doesn't exist in western mainstream thinking. In addition, the Israelis can suppress it quite easily noting the eye-aversion trait of western media, and the Israelis' understanding of its loopholes. An indicident that comes to my mind is when Palestinian prisonners once refused to eat in the hope that their suffering, and possible death, would bring attention to their situation. Then, the Israeli authorities reacted by shoving feeding tubes down their throats. One of the prisonners died when the tube when down his breathing pipe. Recently, a peace activist, Thabet Thabet, recognized both by Israeli and Palestinian groups as such, was assassinated by Israel. When peaceful resistance is completely ignored/goes unnoticed by the world it in turn drives the Palestinians into more frustration, and builds the pressure further, leading to the natural explosion you see today. What actually surprises me is not the "violent" resistance to occupation you see today --ie, largely, teenagers throwing rocks-- but rather the rarity of violent acts over the past three decades noting the level of repression and injustice the Palestinians have lived under. One more thing, is that Israel has showed more than once that it will only address a situation when faced by force and an enemie that is willing to sacrifice his life for his cause. Examples are the Hizbollah in Lebanon amd the first uprising, the first causing an Israeli withdrawal and the second, recognition of and negotiation with the Palestinians. Thus, what's happening today is very spontaneous -- a collective reaction of a community that has nothing left to lose, trying to shake off the burden of constant humiliation and dispossession. By no means did Palestinian leaders sit together in dark rooms and planned the current uprising. If anything, the leaders were caught by surprise. When a monkey is sitting on your back for so many years and you've tried everything to get it off, then pressure builds up in you. And one day you explode. The "turn the other cheek" saying applies, in my opinion, to limited number of slaps. Even to a large number of slaps, but not infinite -- especially when it is one's loved ones, not oneself, that's receiving the slaps. Neither I nor you can say for sure that we'll react differently from the Palestinians in response to what they've been through, can we? Thanks for raising an important issue. Sam

    3 Jan 2001 Boring...Boring...yawn...yawn...
    3 Jan 2001 Gosh you are an idiot.
    27 Dec 2000 Hello Sam, I was wondering since you are so clued up on this "problem", when you think the United Nations War Crimes Tribunal will be able to do its work in Israel. I Think sooner the United Nations are sent to the region the sooner people will see past Israels Media Manipulation. However with the United States being able to veto any proposition in the U.N, will the United Nations ever be able to goto Israel and punish the Racist and eViL Zionists for thier crimes against Humanity. Man you would think these people would have some compassion after how they were treated in ww2, but they turn around and do what the Nazi's did. HOW THE HELL CAN UNITED NATIONS DO NOTHIN Thanx Prince Of Persia Hezbollah Cyber Division
As Chomsky explained: one MUST understand that the world is ruled by force, not by law, reason or any other nice criterion. UN is an instrument in US's hands. --Sam

    26 Dec 2000 Left Wing Teddy Katz admits, he made up massacre allegation against the Palestinians in 48. Historian Teddy Katz to apologize for '1948 massacre' account By Assaf Bergerfreund, Ha'aretz Correspondent [.... article deleted]
See the following links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Al-Awda/message/8012 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Al-Awda/message/7747 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Al-Awda/message/7692 Sam

    25 Dec 2000 first of all i would like to commend you on your wonderful website..i been trying to track down some of these articles for a long time now. Although i am thrilled to see articles by such distinguished commentatros like Noam Chomsky, Edward Herman, Eqbal Ahmad and Naseer Arouri i was somewhat disturbed by the listing of articles by Patrick Buchanan and the racist comments in them. Although he might make a passing criticism of Israel..the fact still remains that he is an apologist for the establishment and a very racist commentator especially in matters relating to China and Chinese Americans. His addition can only harm the website. In solidarity Nikhil
Thank you Nikhil for your words of compliment. I will check the Buchanan articles posted for racism. If there are any that once slipped my eyes, I will remove them. Otherwise, I regret that I will have to keep them, despite Buchanan's other views, not listed here, which might be racist. True he's often an apologist for the establishment, but he also daringly and rightly criticizes US foreign policy, especially in the Middle East. Coming from a main- stream guy like Buchanan, this would carry a lot of weight in the eyes of many visitors to this site who hold his views high. Regards, Sam

    25 Dec 2000 Dear Sam Thank you for your helpful research. I do have one question. I keep reading and hearing about the Palestinian "refugee" problem. Evidently Israel either won't or tries to harass those refugees who seek to return to "their" land. Can you help me? What exactly is the problem? Does Israel refuse to allow refugees back? Is the problem that Israel allows Palestinians to return but with no reparations in the picture? If Israel prevents Palestinians from returning to the land it seems to be with such hypocrisy. For why should the Jews be allowed (and encouraged with US tax dollars) to return to the land but the Palestinians are not? After all in 1900 there were 250,000 Palestinians in the Holy Land and no more than 10,000 Jews. Thank you. DM
The Palestinian refugee question is at the HEART of the entire Middle East conflict. Israel terrorized over a million Palestinian Arabs in 1948 and 1967 to flee, intentionally, via massacres and psychological warfare to create land and space for a Jewish majority needed to establish a "Jewish state". It fits accurately the definition of "ethnic cleansing". Israel immediately, possessed the refugees' houses and lands, or when deemed unfit for "Jewish" habitation, were destroyed, like the 400+ Palestinian villages razed to the ground. Palestinian refugees, not including internal refugees in Israel, number today over 4 million, with their decendents. Since day one, they have been denied the right to return and/or compensation by Israel, mostly because they will upset the Zionist dream of a Jewish majority, or the "Jewish character" of Israel. The hypocrisy is that in the past decade, Israel allowed over 1 million Russian "Jews" to immigrate to Israel, although some of these --30% at least-- were not Jews as reported by the Israeli press! So, Israel would allow "anyone" to "return", it seems, so long (s)he is not Palestinian, or so long (s)he be counted as a "Jew" to help maintian the "Jewish" majority, and hence "Jewish" control of the land. Best Sam

    24 Dec 2000 I just wanted to express my great appreciation of this site. Its wonderful! I am Palestinian, and the great wealth of resources that you have here help me be more knowledgeable about what I always instinctively knew and to back it up with science, when discussing with, and explaining to, others Thank you also for putting light on certain 'mysteries' regarding the Palestinian issue. Happy Eid and Merry Christmas. Kindest regards nisrine
My pleasure. --Sam

    23 Dec 2000 Dear Sam, Thank you for your efforts to present a fair, acurate version of the present state of affairs. More power to you Rod S**
Thank you Sir for your support. --Sam

    10 Dec 2000 Hello Sam, I'm neither Jewish nor Arabic. Keep up the fantastic work you are doing. The maps are especially valuable because without them, it becomes almost impossible to explain what is happening to people who have difficulty locating even Gaza and West Bank (in terms of the Oslo Apartheid). I know that I did not really get it until I saw maps that a prof. had brought to my university. Again, what you are doing is FANTASTIC. Don't let the Zionists discourage you! You are not racist, they are! Friend of Palestine
Thank you dear sir for your input and encouragement.

    10 Dec 2000 Sam Could possibly e-mail me as complete as possible a copy of Albert Einstein's commentary on Zionism and Israel, including source(s) (including copy of editorial in NYT in 1948). Having a hard time accessing it. Sam [email protected]
Regretfully, I don't send mail out to visitors. I don't remember where I got the quote you mention. Perhaps from Lilienthal's book, if that's what you were looking for. Sam

    9 Dec 2000 It's because of people like you that there needs to be a large pro-Israel lobby. If the Jews weren't so involved in PR, they could spend their time finding cures for diseases. Your site proves nothing except that there are vehement anti-Israel people and that Israel is a very busy country because it's always being attacked (despite what your links allege). >It's because of people like you that there needs to be a large pro-Israel lobby.
That's like saying because of medication there needs to be a desease! It goes to show the extent of irrationality today in support for Israel's policies. Truth is, of course, that people like me were created long after, and in response to, the creation of Israeli propaganda industry and lobby organizations such as AIPAC and ADL, that have became a front to cover Israel's crimes, and even to silence criticism of its policies of aggression and expansion. If these organizations did not support Israel blindly, there wouldn't be a need for my site. The "anti-Israel" content of this site represent actions committed by Israel -- not simply "anti-Israel content". One should not be described merely as "anti-Nazi" when one tells the truth about the crimes Nazis committed. I am here exposing Israel's colossal skeleton closet, of Palestinian victimization. The world needs to see that to stand up to Israel. The funny thing is that instead of supporters of Israel waking up to their brain-washedness, they accuse me of "anti-Israelism", even "anti-Semitism". Instead of thinking about the enormous crimes by Israel I listed as the SOURCE of conflict in the Middle East, they try to shut the messenger up. I like to see my actions described not merely as anti-Israeli POLICY (not "anti-Israel"); but more "pro-Palestinian human rights," rights that were robbed by Israel, which I am here exposing. Sam

    8 Dec 2000 I represent a student organization in Montreal, SPHR (Solidarity for Palestinian Human Rights). We would like to commend you on your website which must have required much work and dedication. Our organization works to raise awareness of crimes committed against the Palestinians, of their history and of their culture. It includes members from three universities, Concordia, McGill and UQAM and continues to grow. Our members come from a diverse range of nationalities and religions, all supporting the Palestinian cause. We would like to incorporate your website, along with special thanks and a link, in our website. We would greatly appreciate this. Our URL is http://www.sphr.org/ If you would like to contact us .... Chadi M. SPHR
    7 Dec 2000 Now we know it. What are we going to do about it? Our people are all either suppressed or deep asleep in...honey. Knowing the facts is good,but not good enough. The west is under the siege of the Jewish control. People like Garoudi in France, the Country of Freedom, who told the facts about Jews, is not allowed by the French Supreme Court to write a simople secntence in this subject,not even on the wall of a western toilet. Arabs do not know how to put forward their case, or do they???? They only obey, because they are chevalores. Viva Western Democracy. Viva Freedom of Speech. >Now we know it. What are we going to do about it?
Actually, No, the majority does NOT know "it"; and that's the problem. I would rather use the designation "pro-Israel" control, instead of "Jewish" control. I am assuming that's what you meant! Because, after all, I would love it a lot if a Jew who's pro-fairness and justice against Israeli policies, is in control, wouldn't you? The silencing of Garaudy is shameful. Everyone should have the right to say what they want -- however absurd, as in the case of some of what Garaudy wrote. The abuse of the Holocaust by pro-Israel people for political ends, does not change the fact that millions of Jews were killed by Hitler, deliberately, during WWII. If, however, you hate all Jews and see them as conspiratorial, then please do not comeback here -- not until you have awakened to the fact that Jews, like non-Jews, have the good and the bad. Sam

    7 Dec 2000 Thank you for your comprehensive and honest treatment of disgusting Israeli problem. I would like to suggest a strategem. Compose a series of concise hard-hitting letters (100-200 words) each covering a particular aspect of the issue. Send these to activists around the country with a request that the activists publish the letters in the local newspaper as "letters to the editor". Also, these same activists could send the letters to their friends as e-mail chain letters (each recipient sends a copy to five friends,etc.). Such a program, if successful, would create enough public pressure to force Congress to act. If you can't undertake such a program because of your tax status please send me the name of several inti-Zionist organizations. I will contact them with the same idea.
Thank you for your support. Good suggestion. There's already many pro-human rights activists around the world doing what you suggested. --Sam

    5 Dec 2000 needless to say,we the arabs and muslims are to bear the shameless end results of the continued abuse of our rights by isreal and its puppet the usa.no one but us arabs and muslims should be blamed for the situation we are in and for the genocide which the palestinians are going through.
While I would agree that the Arab (Muslim?) states, in their indifference, inaction and division, have made easy the exesses committed by Israel, I would not agree to the part that "no one but us" is to blame. The exesses are still committed by criminal Israel, and hence, it is certainly the first to blame. Sam

    3 Dec 2000 thank you very much for an awesome and extremely informative site.
My pleasure. --Sam

    3 Dec 2000 the people of iraq may have suffered.....but there leader has caused it!!
I disagree with your use of the word "caused" (not to mention the word "may"!). Saddam's actions certainly didn't help, but "causing" the deaths is another matter. Hint questions: Do you deny that the US has helped majorly in putting and enforcing the sanctions? Do you deny that the removal of sancitons by the US would end the killing; in other words, that THE US _HAS_ A WAY TO END THE NEEDLESS CIVILIAN DEATHS? Didn't Iraq prosper under Saddam BEFORE there were sanctions? Why should the ECONOMIC PART of sanctions, devastating the population, be maintained, if the intent is not to harm civilians? Furthermore, if the intent is not to harm civilians, why was the civilians infratructure of Iraq deliberately bombed in 1991? Or why has the US altered, with the passage of time, the criterion for the removal of sanctions, making it impossible for Saddam to comply? Saddam's actions elicited US leaders' wrath, (for challenging their dominance of the region) which in turn CAUSED the devastation of Iraq by the US. Do you deny that? So: By omitting the "US leaders" factor in your statement above, you attempt -- prehaps not intentionally, but as a result of media indoctrination-- to put ALL the blame on Saddam. No one I know would deny that Saddam is a killer, and that he chose to let his people die at the hands of US-enforced sanctions, rather than bow down to US diktat, lose his power (and his head). But, THE US KNOWS THAT, and despite it, _CHOSE_ to continue the deadly sanctions! And, the US component is THERE, especially since the US leaders _CAN_ stop the needless death -- if they want to! What do you expect Saddam to do when the US imposes deadly sanctions on Iraqi civilians? To just come out and say "I am sorry"? Had he been given an avenue to step down without getting his head chopped off --like what happened to Idi Amin and others dictators-- then he might have opted for that. Right now, the only option left for him by US leaders is commit suicide, or step down and get killed. Are you surprised he chose "none of the above"? You have to learn to think independently from mainstream frameset -- leaders' rhetoric that is echoed unchallenged by the media. It is not unpatriotic to condemn certain action by one's own government, especially when these actions produce a holocaust on another people. Good Luck. Sam

    3 Dec 2000 Dear Sam: I like to commend you on your effort in putting together such a great web site that is rich of resources. The structure is well organized with a tremendous wealth of information. I will definitly recommend this page to my friends who are interested in the politics of the Middle East. Joe Abu*** Atlanta-GA
Thank you for your kind words of compliment. --Sam

    2 Dec 2000 Exellent resource. This is a great source of invaluable facts and figures. Thank you for the enormous amount of work thats obviously been put into compiling all this information. - editor CafeArabica.com
Thank you for your nice compliment. --Sam

    1 Dec 2000 Dear Sam, This is an excellent site!! Fantastic job!! I will pass it on to ALL my friends who I'm sure are going to be just as delighted as I am to have this site as a permanent reference tool.Only 33,000+ people have seen this? No, no....wait and see, this site is going to go around the world millions of times shortly.... I would like to mention one minor point....in the Author's Index as I was trying to access Lilienthal's articles which I'm dying to read but I discovered that I could not and was directed elsewhere instead.....and then I discovered that just below the Lilienthal entry there are many,many other articles that are embedded in the site but which are not labelled and do not appear to be there...I found that I was clicking on blank white spaces and being lead to articles...it's a shame that it appears there is a wealth of info there that is not evident to the naked eye....I hope that you can correct this as I'd love to see what is there so that I can choose what to click on rather than just click blindly and read whatever comes up.Please, can you check the Lilienthal entry and then also everything that comes under it straight down the right-hand side of that page? Thanks very much. And thank you again for providing such an informative and absorbing site!! I would prefer that you do not publish my comments re your Author Index as everything else is so wonderful on the site that this is just a trivial aside...and quite negligible if I were'nt so anxious to read every single item that you have published in the Author's Index..especially Lilienthal's works.. PS You have no articles by Amos Oz? Perhaps there are but I have overlooked them...I'll keep looking... Thanks again.... Genie T. Alexandria, Virginia
Thank you for your nice input! I am, however, unable to reproduce the problem you mention. I do have one article by Amos Oz. You may suggest others, if you want. But the many I have seen were not too different from Israel's main-stream propaganda. Sam

    29 Nov 2000 Dear Sam, In my quest to collect articles and documents covering the Arab-Israeli struggle for our web site, I have seen numerous web sites with valuable and interesting collection. However, this one is really the most comprehensive archive I have ever seen so far covering the issue. The Author Index is a fantastic reference that must be bookmarked by every one who seeks knowledge and understanding. Please, keep it up. Such a professional effort is so dearly needed in this struggle. Thank you for the enormous amount of time you have so far invested in this little library. You have surely filled my heart with pride and hope ! Khalil El-Sa*** (I was referred by a friend. I'm adding a link to this wonderful site on our web site)
Thank you for your kind support, Khalil. --Sam

    28 Nov 2000 Mashallah. May God bless you for your good work. This site is brilliantly informative and I am telling everyone about it. Bilal P.
Thank you Bilal. --Sam

    27 Nov 2000 Dear Sam I very happy to have found your web site. It is a great source of information, and I'm recomending it to any one that wants to know the truth about the Palestinia and Jewish claim to Palestine. So if any one asks me about the Palestinian, the answer would be your site. Keep up the good work and may God bless you.
Thank you sir/madam. --Sam

    26 Nov 2000 Sam Amazing page. The sources are credible and respected, and I will be using your page often, as a Human Rights activist and plain old seeker of justice. Well done, thank you. Please, please continue. I believe pages like yours prove what great benefit the Internet can provide. Truth, information and knowledge will be the weapons in the war against injustice. Minnesota girl
Thank you, Minnesota girl. --Sam

    25 Nov 2000 Sam, The level of passion your page arouses from both sides of the Arab/Jew divide is remarkable. Obviously, it taps into visceral emotions for both parties. As a Muslim from South Asia, I have just belatedly begun delving on my own into the Paletinian-Zionist conflict, which had often seemed remote and hopelessly complicated, but which I felt it was my duty to familiarize myself with, when the new round of conflict started a few weeks ago. My starting point has been Benny Morris's 1999 book "Righteous Victims : A History of the Arab-Zionist Conflict". Although Morris himself is apparently reviled by large sections of the Zionist entity for his 'demythologizing' of romantic cliches regarding the creation of Israel, one thing apart from all else stands out in my mind from reading his account, which on the whole strikes me as reasonably balanced and impartial. That point is this : With the kind of leadership the Arabs have been cursed with, it is unlikely that Israel would NOT have been created. From the early years, when the Arab landowning classes sold land to the Jews on the one hand, while hypocritically denouncing the Zionist enterprise on the other hand, to the feckless ineptitude of the Palestinian leadership during the crucial decades up to 1948, when the Arabs probably needed strong committed visionary leadership more than anything else, to the War of 1948 itself, when countries like Jordan and Egypt were more interested in land-grabs for themselves than anything else - this catalogue of selfishness, shortsightedness, disunity, infighting, and missed opportunities on the part of the Arabs is enough to make one scream in frustration. Unfortunately, strong, committed, focussed, visionary, even ruthless, leadership was exactly what the Israelis had, in the shape of Ben-Gurion et al, so much so that Ben-Gurion has even been accused of putting the Zionist state above all other interests, including the ongoing Holocaust in Europe! My argument is this, though I run the risk of being branded an apologist for force, which I would like to assure you I am not. Without the political savvy and the military muscle to properly look after their own interests, the Arabs were always at risk of being brutalized by a people as chillingly united, dedicated and unscrupulous as the Zionists. The term is Realpolitik, and the Arabs let themselves down quite hopelessly in that respect. They contributed in large measure to their own downfall. I understand that your site addresses the question of Israeli injustice, while I am worried more by the different issue of weak Arab leadership, and the larger weaknesses of Arab society which continue to this day. While the Palestinians themselves fight on to redress historical wrongs, and while fissures appear in Israel itself regarding the nature of its society and the morality of its creation, it is ALL-IMPORTANT that Arabs everywhere work to modernize and strengthen Arab society, and above all to UNIFY themselves against Western aggression and exploitation. There is no greater shame in this world when oil-rich sheikhs prance around in stretch limousines and million-dollar yachts, burning dollars with abandon in the casinos of Las Vegas and the Riviera and in the racetracks of the world, when their fellow-Arabs are the victims of oppression and injustice. If Arabs worked on this one thing alone, a just solution to the conflict would be far more achievable.
Thanks for your feedback. I would definitely agree that the Arab world has been plagued by terrible leaders, whose decisions have not helped the Palestinian problem to get resolved -- to say the least. On many occasions, they made the problem worse, with their negative and threatening rhetoric, inexperience in western morals and PR, inner fighting, selfishness, subservience to the West, denial of freedom of expressions to the people they rule, not to mention robbing the people's resources to buy villas and luxury cars. With this in mind, is it a wonder they have failed in stopping Zionism from expanding and sucking out Palestinian resources and livelihood? Furthermore, Arab leaders' incompetence on the world front, coupled with unwise policies, has been capitalized on by the Zionists to further dispossess the Palestinians of their rights and lands. That's why the Zionist, while claiming otherwise, prefer to have dictatorships around them, which help keep the Arab public subdued, and their countries and armies inefficient. The corruption of Arab leadership would make an excellent subject for a website. There are many out there about that. Best Sam

    25 Nov 2000 Yours is one of the best anti-Zionism sites I've come across. As an American I am sickened by the slavish pro-Israel sycophancy in the U.S. government and media. I probably wouldn't care about Israeli massacres of Palestinians, except that they're carried out with American bullets shot from American guns and American bombs dropped from American planes. Thus, I feel responsible. Would that The men in our Government would see fit to abide by sensible, armed neutrality espoused by our founding fathers, and cut off all foriegn aid, including and especially that to Israel. It never ceases to amaze (and disgust) me the lengths to which the average American will go to rationalize murder, torture, and disposession when the victims are Arab and the victimizers are Israeli. I see on your feedback page that they've launched the usual defamatory accusations of "anti-Semitism". Don't let them get away with that. Merriam Webster's online dictionary defines "Semite" as "a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs" or "a descendant of these peoples". Since you're an Arab, and Arabs are semites, It's technically impossible for you to be an anti-Semite. Keep up the good work and best of luck with your site.
Thank you friend. When I hear the term "anti-Semitism", I usually avoid semantics, and respond based on its "widely accepted" meaning -- namely, anti-Jewish. --Sam

    24 Nov 2000 Your web site locks me up on the miscellaneous page. I am unable to print that out. I encounter a run-time bug error.
Probably, a geocities bug that I can't fix. Try again later. Best. --Sam

    24 Nov 2000 If you EVER wanted or thought of peace with ISRAEL, why does your logo on this site show your true intent - no State of Israel. Only a "palestine" where ISRAEL IS, AND WILL BE FOREVER.
Didn't realize I had a logo! Where exactly did you see one -- let alone one that indicate "no State of Israel"? If you are talking about the "Right of Return" with a map of all of historic Palestine, then, first, that is not my logo. Second, the map indicates where the Palestinian refugees should be able to return to, should peace and justice take place. Afterall, that's where the Palestinian refugees used to live 52 years ago, before being terrorized out, expelled and massacred by Israel, their houses demolished, or expropriated for "Jewish" use. If, on the other hand, you are talking about using the colors of the Palestinian flag on the main page, then that's actually just a way to show solidarity with the victims, but not adopting it as a "logo". Furhermore, displaying the colors of the Palestinian flag does not indicate "no State of Israel". On the other hand, forbidding even the display of its colors, as Israel did during the first Intifada, is indicative of ISRAEL's true intent - "no state of Palestine". Sam

    24 Nov 2000 Arab States get more aid from the U.S. than Israel. Jews in the U.S. pay more in taxes (which is what is ultimately used for aid than arabs in the U.S.) Who really got the better return on equity from the U.S.? Arab countries. Who votes WITH the U.S. on almost every matter in the U.N. and supports the United States in almost every way possible? Israel Whose terrorists bomb U.S. ships and aircraft? Arabs Who SHOULD get NO aid from the U.S. - Arab countries - except Egypt. >Arab States get more aid from the U.S. than Israel.
False! Actually, the word "False" is an understatement. Aid to Israel in 1996 was about sixfold the aid to the entire continent of Africa (aside from Egypt), where many Arab countries lie. US gives Egypt aid because Egypt signed a treaty with Israel and entered US clients sphere, not to mention gave Israel a carte blanche to aggression, after neutralizing the largest Arab country bordering Israel. The combined US aid to Egypt and Israel is about 40% if not more of US's *TOTAL* aid to the ENTIRE WORLD! For the past 25 years, Israel received an average of $10,000,000 PER DAY from US.
    >Jews in the U.S. pay more in taxes
More than who? US Jews constitute 2% of the population. True they are the richest minority, but to claim they pay more than the remaining 98% is absurd, if that was your implication. If the implication was that Jews pay more than their ratio in the population, then true. That's because they're --on average-- rich, way more so than the population average. But still, the overall tax amount paid by these, does not, not even remotely, approach that paid by the overall population. In addition, many Jews donate to Israel, TAX FREE via special organizations, such as UJA. In other words, uncle Sam and all US taxpayers, pick-up maybe about a third of US Jews' tax-deductible donations to Israel. These amount close to one BILLION some years. Similar numbers come from fundamentalist Christians supporters of Israel.
    >Who votes WITH the U.S. on almost every matter in the U.N. and supports the >United States in almost every way possible? Israel
What you meant to say, probably, is who ALONE votes with Israel in support of the latter's belligerence and violation of international laws? Answer: US. US is a pretty big country and can manipulate the UN and international law as it pleases, almost. It certainly does not need Israel's vote on any issue.
    >Whose terrorists bomb U.S. ships and aircraft? Arabs
And who made these people reach such a desperate state that they chose death and terrorism? Sam

    23 Nov 2000 Dear Sam- Thanks for this web site. In today's world the information is so misleading that being an arab is considered as crime. I personally do not hold any bad feelings toward jews, but I certainly wish something happens to make Isreal less arrogant. I hope that Arab rulers be more united, and Arabs abroad help each other on a daily bases, do business with arabs first, hire arabs first, all that can be done to support arabs must be done. Arab countries should reduce oil production to jack up the prices and push the world to accept the rights of arabs to be in their lands, what arabs need is a long term plan whose objectives are not to destruct a particular party or faith but to ensure that arab people be respected and never aggressed, the way the media and Israel are doing. Thanks again for the webpage, I know that you are an Arab-Americain, are you Muslim or Christian? C.
As I say on the front page of this site, I see myself a Christian Arab- American. But above all, however, I am a human being with compassion for victims of oppression. I added that important note on the front page. --Sam

    22 Nov 2000 fuck u! [From Israel]
Quite original. --Sam

    21 Nov 2000 Great job sam! We live in a world filled with contrived truths manipulated for the benefit of the rich and powerful amongst us. It is nice to see someone care enough to speak out for those that few care about. The Palestinians are humans like us and deserve to live in peace without harassment and fear. Eventually, justice catches up with those commiting the crime as horrific as what we see in Palestine. God bless your good work!
Thank you friend. --Sam

    20 Nov 2000 fuck you all bnei-zonot mizdaynim batahat busters motherfuckers [From Israel.]
    20 Nov 2000 Great Site Sam - Just look at the responses of "pro-israeli" responders and one can see the hatred inside - or is it because THEY CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH !!!! I hope you have back-up copies of your site - as you know the israelis had launched internet terrorism shutting down Hezbullah and Hamas sites amongst others. Continue on in the search of truth good friend !! Peace comes only to those with real love in their hearts - and Israel does not have it.
Thank you for your support, fellow. --Sam

    19 Nov 2000 [This is the second and last feedback allowed you.] Hello, this is regarding: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/7891/israel_india_kutty_092000.html (a docuemnt you are linked to, about Israeli - Indian relations) I would just like to point out just how much you proved my point for me on there. I already admit to a SLIGHT extent of what you have claimed about Israels birth (but nowhere near as much as you claim, and i've seen much evidance sent, which you answered with 'political wording' that made you sound right, but you never proved it wrong) but the fact is that document HIGHLIGHTS Arab threat as in the document there were claims that (summed up) 'If they wanted to, the arab world can make India suffer dearly, economically, and perhaps even militerally, if they keep supporting Israel.' and then you post about how israel is making sure India (and others) are defenatly pro-israel. Heh, which bit suprised you more i would liek to know, Israels 'make sure they're on our side', or Arab threats to yet ANOTHER state? please Answer >I already admit to a SLIGHT extent of what you have claimed about Israels birth >(but nowhere near as much as you claim, and i've seen much evidance sent, which >you answered with 'political wording' that made you sound right, but you never >proved it wrong)
Please be specific about "evidence sent" and my "poitical wording" -- that is, if you desire an answer.
    >'If they wanted to, the arab world can make India suffer dearly, economically, >and perhaps even militerally, if they keep supporting Israel.'
The keyword here is "IF". Rhetoric aside, Arab leaders have become indifferent about the Palestinian issue, and want to bail out like Egypt did. "IF" the Arab countries want to, they could indeed make india suffer dearly, BUT at a loss to them too -- something they don't want to sacrifice for the sake of the Palestinians.
    >Heh, which bit suprised you more i would liek to know, Israels 'make sure they're >on our side', or Arab threats to yet ANOTHER state?
Huh? Where do I claim surprise, please specify? What's wrong with Arab states threatening another state to not do business with a criminal state, Israel, until that state has ended its victimization of Palestinians? Just like there were boycotts of the apartheid regime, there should be boycotts --under threats of sanctions, if necessary-- of Israel, until Israel pursues real peace based on justice, ends the occupation of Palestinian land and enslavement of the people, and compensates and repatriates its long-time victims. Sam

    18 Nov 2000 Your site may speak the truth but what are you going to do? Isreal has planes, tanks and Nuclear weapons. How will you counter this? With rocks and pistols?
The pen is mightier than the sword. What Israel abhors most is a world that is informed on the issue. And, informing the world is what I am here for -- armed with my pen. --Sam

    16 Nov 2000 Hello "Sam" TL here again (i wrote last on the 15th and you appriciated my direct and (i hope) realtively exact info).. I hope you will find this equally good... anyway i've got a few new things i want to write about now, to respond to my last message, unfortunately it is not infront of me so i'm writing off the top of my head (instead of analyzing little bits like you do).. but basically, you keep saying "have you ever thought why" "all we ask for is ... ".. well, thats all fine, but as the peace process started, the world was available to the palestinians, they had very little limits (except Jerusalem) yet the arab leadership.. and statistically 50% of teh palestinians joined with Hamas ("unofficially") and basically got Benjamin Netanyahu elected, which led to all the problems of todays process. As for the past, Israeli confiscation etc etc etc.. i agree, i personally want the (majority) of settlements DISMANTLED... but unfortunately, they are there, and as for hatred going back for the last 50 years (as i said, i was a soldier in the territory), well i have two points about that, one will come up a bit later.. but basically, the majority of that generation is dead they gave the 'deed to the house' to their now young offspring, many of whom are STILL refugees.. I saw it on CNN.. them going "We will stay this way until we go back to our home, the one where our grandfather lived"... c'mon! i don't like how history was dictated.. but this is basically they're choice, they choose to NOT reintegrate into society.. sure i understand the economy in the west bank isn't exactly "western".. but many do not even try... As for the original ISRAELI action, i know you'll go further back than this, but the FACT is that the 6 day war (in which east Jerusalem was reintegrated with the rest) was originally against Egypt, which was mounting it's army following a Russian -FALSE- report Israel was going to attack, as did Syria, the result was an israeli attack, but Israel did NOT strike Jordan or the west bank, it's WELL DOCUMENTED that they bombarded west jerusalem which resulted in a quick and swift Israeli responce. I constantly question history, it's my job as a person who lives in a place where history dictates the future. but the fact remains, wether fair or not, that the palestinians are NOT helping the process in any way what-so-ever. You have made quite clear that "israelis do not consider arabs as equal"... i'm afriad you have a VERY big bias there I AM ISRAELI, I have MANY friends there, and arabs in general are considered equal, but then that image is turned into ANIMALS when organizations like HAMAS are around, and they have a lot of support in the west bank, which in turn draws less support within israel! I would also like to highlight the 2 facts ... I am proud to now reveal these. firstly, I have recently visited london. While there, i bought the paper the "Jewish chronical", it highlighted new threatening letters sent by arabs to the police, media and Jewish leaders, following an old-fashioned arab flag-burining now, upon reading this letter, my adrenaline rose, as did my patriotism, they actually THREATENED all jews who helped Israel. Well you expect this actions by certain muslim leaders to help change israelis opinions? in 20 seconds of reading the letter my "pro-right" (small) side really lit up.. and yet you claim it's JEWS faults for looking as "pro-israeli".. well we were just backed in to a corner, just like arabs did the opposite as soon as this started i do not see ANY WAY what-so-ever you can justify such action, infact, it should be condemned in the biggest way possible.. as far as i've SEEN, it's arabs who ruin the peace ideals at every corner lately. AS for the second point, i am now PROUD to reveal a new fact! you claimed your obsession is healthy and based on truth. Fortunately, i consider myself a bit on an analyst and "study of human attitude" to the point, I noticed your excessive use of Israeli historians who "justify" your cause, well, doesn't that just make you look as if you really want "the truth"? Well, i'll let you decide and believe what you will, but you might wanna RE-WRITE your site, as i have seen new evidance which CONTRADICTS your evidance IN "Israel's birth myth" you highlight an israeli historians quote (and the same in several other areas) that there was "huge amounts of rape which was covered up" the truth is the best bit, On the documentry "50 years, Israel and the Arabs" they INTERVIEWED Arabs who admitted to being told (and going along with) a HUGE amount of lies such as rape I SAW people (and analysts) aswell as peoples children admitting that they, their fathers, their history, they LIED.... yes, lied about EVERYTHING like that, they said "they expelled us, quite a few for just for saying these things about rape and other things" "There was no rape" "none at all" "it was just in order to get arab support" what have you got to say about that? people interviewed, last year, admitting to making all this up.. several now live in the west bank, others in the USA (if i remember correctly).. but facts are facts, there is NO evidance of rape, and now theres proof that infact it was a lie... what have you got to say about that? On this note, i like to highlight the fact that, wether or not it was a partially Israeli plan, those jews who FLED countries like Iraq, Syria, Egypt etc etc etc, they have NO right of return to their former house, and anything they left was confiscated for the "war effort" yet they integrated into Israel perfectly, and stopped complaining, this is why you rarely hear anything about them... I would like some comments here.. justify your cause please, as i am revieweing more and more evidance that many Israelis suffered EXACTLY the same conditions, but "stood on their own feet" and made themselfs a new life, unlike their palestinian counterparts who rather live in suffering and hate. I'm in NO WAY saying these are exactly the same, nor anything of the sort, but i'm saying that facts here have been modified AGAINST israel here, proof has been given.. also new proof has shown that in fact not only the palestinians lost their possetions and land etc etc, and several brought it on themselfs... etc etc etc... please reply, i would verty much like to see some insight from the other side.. Again, i've managed to write a very scuffy comment, sorry if this was somewhat hard to interpret, but i believe the BASIS of my comments/questions are clear. Thanks for reading (and answering) -- TL
[Due to limited resources, this is the last of your feedbacks to be printed and/or responded to. --Sam]
    >as the peace process started, the world was available to the palestinians, >they had very little limits (except Jerusalem)
I am not sure what you mean by "the world was available to the palestinians", aside from rhetoric from Israeli and US leaders and media. But, let see how this wonderful "peace" process dealt with the issues MOST important to the Palestinians, namely, their freedom, independence and justice. - Did Israel agree to withdraw to 1967 lines? NO - Did Israel agree to dismantle illegal settlement colonies, built in the heart of the West Bank and Gaza? NO - Did Israel agree to a Palestinian cotrol of E. Jerusalem? NO - Did Israel agree to allowing the Palestinians refugees the right to return, as it does to all of world's Jews? NO. - Did Israel agree to allow the Palestinians FULL control of the W. Bank and Gaza water sources? NO - Did Israel agree to allow the Palestinians to control their skies? NO - Did Israel agree to allow the Palestinians to control their borders? NO - Did Israel agree to allow the Palestinian state to be contiguous? NO - When you say "except Jerusalem", are you referring to the pre-1967 known borders of the city, or the ones Israel expanded immediately after 1967 war, manyfolds INTO the west bank, after the ususal demolition of homes and land confiscation? - How different is what Israel offered Arafat under Oslo ("unprecedented concessions"), from what any colonialist power offered the colonized, as far as: have the locals (i.e. Arafat & co.) run the day-to-day lives of the occupied, like garbage collection, etc, while continuing the occupation? NOT MUCH. - Has Israel removed the suffocating closure on Palestinian territories, which devastated their economy, throughout the "peace" talks? NO NOW, can you look a Palestinian in the eyes, with a straight face, and tell him/her that the above "peace process" is about "peace" and that "the world was available" to him?" I don't think so.
    >statistically 50% of teh palestinians joined with Hamas ("unofficially")
Yup, if not more. And, "if I [Barak] were a Palestinian, I too would join a terrorist group"!!! That's what Barak slipped and admitted two years ago. When Palestinians started to notice that the "peace" process, was actually a change from an occupation into an apartheid, as the above points became more and more clear, then their desparation ran high, as their economy and unemployment, with an ever suffocating closure by Israel, deteriorated rapidly. When Palestinians see these clearly ill-intention of Israel, since "peace" began in 1993, e.g. accelerated settlement building, land confiscation, home demolitions and "Jews-only" highways construction by Israel on their land, do you blame them for joining the only organization that opposed Arafat's "peace" process? Do you blame them when they Arafat & Co. erect villas, drive luxury cars with VIP pass, while they, the people, sink deeper into poverty? Don't forget, also, that Hamas supported a large civilian infrastructure of hospitals, schools, etc. If the Palestinians saw any good intentions on Israel's part, Hamas' followership would've likely decreased. Not to mention that the deadliness of Hamas' attacks worsened considerably after the Baruch Goldstein's massacre at the Ibrahimi Mosque, noting Israel's lack of any serious action against the settlers in its wake (in fact, after that massacre, Israel put the Palestinians under curfew, as though they were the aggressors.) Not to mention, furthermore, that it was Israel that strengthened Hamas before Arafat time, in order to undermine Arafat's leadership. Did you know about that? If not, you got a lot of reading to do before you continue your defence of Israel.
    >and basically got Benjamin Netanyahu elected, which led to all the problems of >todays process.
You are here implying that there's a "major" difference --as far as Palestinians rights, mentioned above, are concerned-- between Netanyahu/Likud/Sharon and Barak/Labor/Rabin. That's a myth. I guess there ARE some differences -- on the amount of the crumbs each offered the Palestinians. If you disagree, please mention MAJOR differences between them on the issues of refugees, settlements, control of water resources, borders, E. Jerusalem -- the real issues of the whole conflict that are core to Palestinian independence and freedom. How do Barak's four "Nos", or five "redlines", differ from Sharon's? If, for the sake of argument, one agrees that Netanyahu's created "problems of todays process", then please define them, and define how Barak, aside from rhetoric, has done better, or has tried to "fix" them. You are here reminded that the number of tenders for settlements issued during Barak's time, OUTPACED those of Netanyahu, who offered more RHETORIC about expanding settlements than Barak did. Barak/Labor talk more about "peace" while doing the EXACT same thing (sometimes less, sometimes more) than Likud. They talk about freezing the settlements, but they do the opposite. Guess who initiated the Har Homa project, for example? The likud are at least honest about it. (Interestingly, Barak is today coutring Likud/Sharon for a unity gov.)
    >.., i personally want >the (majority) of settlements DISMANTLED... but unfortunately, they are there
Past and current Israeli leaders built settlements EXACTLY so that future people --YOU-- will say "but unfortunately, they are there" -- i.e. facts on the ground, to hinder the creation of a viable Palestinian state, if at all allow one to come into existence. I have a better solution: KEEP the settlements, BUT create a binational state in the whole of Palestine, where all Palestinians and Israelis, irrespective of their ethnicity/religion, would get EQUAL rights! What's wrong with that? The silence is deafening. Regarding the justification of the six-day 1967 war: <=================================================== = Egypt's army movements in Sinai in 1967 were largely symbolic to appease neighboring Arab leaders. Israel knew that by the admission of its leaders. The US and CIA knew that. Egypt was trying to get out of this trap, and it was possible in a "brekthrough" when Nasser scheduled to send to Washington his vice president to help end the crisis. But, Israel's forces struck before that avenue was explored, violating a pledge they made to President Johnson. = The following are mostly from N. Finkelstein's "Image and Reality" book, which is STRONGLY recommended: - In late May (67) Chief of Staff Rabin told the Israeli cabinet that Egyptian forces in the Sinai were still in a defensive posture. - US intelligence in May stated that there's no evidence Egypt was planning to attack. - US president Johnson told Eban that it was the "unanimous view [of US experts] that there's no Egyptian intention to make an imminent attack." - Rikhye, who toured the Egyptian front, confirms that Egyptian troops were not poised for an offensive. - NYT reporter James Reston observed that Egypt "does not want war and it is certainly not ready for war". - Mossad Chief Meir Amit stated: "Egypt was not ready for a way; and Nasser did not want a war." - Eban stated that he found U Thant's assurance --that Nasser promissed not to attack Israel-- convincing, and that "Nasser did not want war; he wanted a victory without war." - In a speech at the Israeli National Defense College, PM Menachem Begin said: (Jerusalem Post, 08/20/1982) "The Egyptian concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him" - Rabin (Le Monde, 29/02/1968): "I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to the Sinai on May 14 would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive against Israel. He knew it and we knew it"
    >but Israel did NOT strike Jordan or the west bank, it's WELL DOCUMENTED that they >bombarded west jerusalem which resulted in a quick and swift Israeli responce.
= Jordan was in a defense treaty with Egypt. Israel knew that, and hence, can't pretend it was SURPRISED by a Jordanian bombardment, that "MADE" Israel (how convenient) take Jerusalem which it coveted and failed to conquer in 1948. Hint: Israel expected Jordan to attack since it had a treaty with Egypt, and hence provide her with the pretext to continue its 1948 conquest of Jerusalem, which it couldn't fullfil then. Even if one assume that Israel was justified in occupying all of that land, ISRAEL HAD NO RIGHT, WHATSOEVER, TO VIOLATE THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS BY MOVING ITS CIVILIAN POPULATION INTO THE TERRITORIES IT OCCUPIED. That's called COLONIZATION, and, it exposes the lies of the "defensive" motive behind Israel's 1967 war ("I need your house, car, livelihood, and to exploit your labor to obtain security for myself", yea right). I am still waiting for you, or any other Israeli to answer this point. The silence is deafening. In pure and simple words: Israel coveted that land. If the above is not convincing enough, I don't know what is.
    >You have made quite clear that "israelis do not consider arabs as equal"... i'm >afriad you have a VERY big bias there I AM ISRAELI, I have MANY friends there, >and arabs in general are considered equal,
That's quite sweet, especially the "in general" part! First, there are two "kinds" of Palestinians living within historic Palestine today: those living under Israeli occupation, and those carrying Israeli citizenship. I am sure NO rational human being would claim that the former have anywhere near equal rights as Israelis. No need to really discuss that here, as I have a WHOLE site to show otherwise. As for the latter group -- the Israeli-Arabs, I recommend a visit to the "Zionism I" page and read sections about Racism. For one, the fact that Israel is a "state for Jews" and "NOT for its citizens", should give out the first hint. Arabs are restricted --until recently, legally-- from purchasing land. Their towns get the short end of funding, by admission of Israeli leaders. They account for twice their ratio of Israeli poverty. They are restricted from employment opportunities reserved for those who serve in the Army (i.e. Jews and Druze). Upper echelon positions rarely have Israeli-Arabs in them. Israeli-Arabs are extensively searched at airports, and when they demonstrate against their unequal treatment, as citizens of "democracies" do, they are shot at with live ammunition by the army, instead of water canons and tear gas thrown by riot police. When recently, for example, 300 Jewish settlers carried torches and marched toward the house of Arab Knesset member Asmi Bshara, and attempted to burn it down, none of them was harmed, let alone stopped by Israel's army. One could only wonder whether 300 Israeli-Arabs would even make it alive, should they decide to go to the house of a Jewish Knesset member with torches. Israel's birth myths, massacres, rapes and the "new" historians. ================================================================ Israel opened some of its 1948 archives in the 1980s. Based on that, updated history was written. Aside from the various inflated/deflated accounts by victims/victimzers, it turned out, on the whole, that what Israelis grew up to know as "history", was mostly myth -- stories of noble war of "defense", "independence", and "purity of arms", etc. It is, therefore, only natural that I quote for you from the "new" historians' account, which is ever-growing today. The "newness" of their account stems only from the date the records were opened. Why should I rely, as you do, on moth-eaten dusty "heroic" history, derived from Israeli leaders' proclamations and slogans, made mostly for public consumption and world opinion, instead of factual, historical and governmental documents that were once kept away from the public, but are now available for all to see? The updated history showed that most of what the Arabs were saying --especially that Palestinians were violently expelled or fled in terror, and NOT that Arab leaders asked them to leave-- was true. Israeli army behaved as violently and as murderously as any army, it turned out: massacres, rapes, etc. Actually, massacres and general methods to terrorize the locals were more common here than other armies, as there was a need to "cleanse" the land of non-Jews. Sorry if that doesn't match the fantasies, and fairy tales of a "moral" army and "purity of arms" you and other Israelis grew up with, but facts are facts. Another one of the cherished myths of Israel, was that the latter was earnestly seeking peace after the war, while the Arabs were none compromising. Aside from public rhetoric, the truth turned out to be the EXACT opposite -- that Israel was the one who refused to compromise or allow refugees to return. On the issue of rape: from Morris to Pappe to Palumbo, to Segev, to Ben Gurion's to Lapierre, etc, they all say cases of rape were very common as a terror tactic to encourage the population to leave. It is highly UNLIKELY that testimony by arab women about being raped was exaggerated, noting the sensitivity of Arab culture to the issue of rape. After the Deir Yassin massacre, Arab women who displayed the same symptoms of a raped woman, would REFUSE and feel shame to speak about being raped. So, in the case of rape particularly, I would say that Arab women testimony is the OPPOSITE of exaggerated. What better display of the Israeli "Defense" Force's "morality" than today's shooting of children by Israeli sharpshooters or perhaps Rabin's "break their bones" order, or Israeli leaders sanctioning of bombardment of civilian areas throughout the decades, or the killing of POWs, etc? All of these were/still are being condemned by countless human rights organizations, INCLUDING Israeli ones, like Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, B'Tselem, Physicians for Human Rights, UN, etc. (Please, no more of the "they are all anti-Israel"). Every country has its fairy tales and myths of heroism about its past. That helps fuel the national identity of its citizens. As an Arab, I too was taught about "noble" and "moral" Arab conquests -- always called "civilizing missions". It took a lot of effort on my part to fight years of indoctrination, and to place myself in the conquered's shoe. But I have. It is now your turn as an Israeli to follow suite. Arab Jews, and the Arab Israeli component ========================================= You keep bringing the Arab dimension, as does almost all defenders of Israel and Zionism, perhaps to justify what Israel did to the Palestinians or at least change the subject of, and divert attention from Israel's original sin. Be it the issue of Arab Jews, that Arab states are non-democratic, or what have you. That however will NOT relieve you and other defenders of Israel/Zionism from having to answer for Israel's major crime: the dispossession of the Palstinians. THIS IS the core of the conflict, which is anavoidable fruit of Zionism. Palestine IS the Palestinians' homeland from which they were terrorized by Zionists into fleeing or were expelled. Whether Arab countries agreed to settle them (Jordan) or not (Lebanon) is an important, but a SIDE issue to the core CAUSE of the conflict. (My neighbor is hardly the one to blame for not housing the other neighbor that *I* kicked out of his house.) Just like it is an important but side issue whether the allies could have saved the Jews in WWII by bombing Auschwitz, which does NOT change the fact that the Nazis WERE guilty and have to compensate the victims. On the issue of Arab Jews: No one's denying that the Arab countries have AT TIMES mistreated their Jews, which was a factor in their emigration to Israel or elsewhere. These Jews had full rights as regular citizens. The only thing they were exempted from is military service. There were no institutionalized discrimination against them like there is against non-Jewish Israelis today, although many Arab-Jews were caught sabotaging some places (Egypt 1954) and spying on their own countries (Eli Cohen) for Israel. But I personnally feel very upset at the treatment these received in some of the Arab countries, by some people or by some goverments. Be it the confiscation of their properties after they left, or the implicit culture of equating Jews with Zionists -- a byproduct of Zionism. These Jews, however, were not escorted to the borders with machine guns, or terrorized away by fear of rape and massacre, as were the Palestinians in 48. Nor were they mistreated BEFORE the onset of Zionism/Israel, which should raise a fairly large eyebrow as to how Israel became a CAUSE of anti-Semitism, instead of CURE. While I am deeply bothered, at the confiscation of Arab-Jewish property, I can understand somewhat where the decision comes from. When someone leaves your country to join your enemy --the same enemy that continues to bombard your bretheren and torment others-- you're harldy expected to be jubilant about that? If a WWII Jew left the Warsaw ghetto to join Nazi forces in their genocide against the Jews, how would his Jewish friends react? Would they confiscate his property before he leaves? If they do would you blame them? I am not saying these situations are identical, but the victim- joining-victimizer-arousing-anger-among-fellow-victims does apply, apart from scale. Not to mention that changing the topic from the Palestine-Israel issue, to Arab-Oriental-Jews issue, might demand raising the issue of how Israel ITSELF treated these Jews when they arrived to the "promissed land" -- hardly a rosy welcome by European Zionists one might add. Tom Segev has written interesting stuff on that issue (e.g. The Seventh Million/1949 First Israelis) that you should explore before you decide again to raise the issue of the treatment of Arab Jews by Arab countries, let alone claim that Arab Jews "integrated into Israel perfectly". (If they were, Menahem Begin wouldn't have become PM in 77, but that's a whole new topic). I here acknowledge, as an Arab and above all a human being, the RIGHT of Arab Jewish refugees to RETURN to their homes, and get compensation from Arab governments. When they come, I will embrace them and tell them I am sorry for the ill treatment they might have received from some Arab people/governments. Now, as an Israeli and a human being, can YOU do likewise, and repeat the same thing regarding Palestinian refugees!!!!!! I didn't think so! Afterall, if Israel had allowed Palestinian refugees to return after the 1948 war, it is highly likely that the Arab-Israel conflict would have ended in 1948. Sadly, Israel wanted a JEWISH state and wanted to expand its territory at the expense of Palestinian land. It is just them damn Palestinians who can't clear out the way for the Zionists to realize their dream. More on Palestinian refugee issue: ==================================
    >"We will stay this way until we go back to our home, the one where our >grandfather lived"... c'mon! i don't like how history was dictated.. but this >is basically they're choice, they choose to NOT reintegrate into society
First, many refugees, if not most/all, would like to move on , if they are allowed to by their host countries. But still, I don't find anything wrong with refugees clinging to the RIGHT to return to their ancestral homes, that were lost just 50 years ago (or less). In fact I know of another people who say they clinged to their homes for 2000 years and demand a right to return! (Hint!) Do you still not like "how history was dictated" -- aside from the fact that this statement absolves the victimizer, Israel, from its guilt?
    >as i am revieweing more and more evidance that many Israelis >suffered EXACTLY the same conditions, but >"stood on their own feet" and made themselfs a new life, unlike their >palestinian counterparts who rather live in suffering and hate. I'm in NO WAY >saying these are exactly the same, nor anything of the sort, but i'm saying that >facts here have been modified AGAINST israel here, proof >has been given..
You are here implying that the Palestinian refugees *CHOOSE* to live "in suffering and hate". How interesting. Some Palestinians refugees have been ALLOWED to move on by their host countries. Jordan's a prime example, as 60% of today's Jordanians are actually Palestinians. The other extreme is Lebanon, where today 360,000 Palestinian refugees are still NOT ALLOWED to integrate by Lebanon. How about the 800,000 of the 1.1 million Palestinians living in the concentration camp called Gaza, who are refugees? Please enlighten me on how you propose these "stand on their feet", knowing that they are surrounded by Israel, they have been living under a cruel Israeli occupation, that sucks out their resources, uses them for cheap labor, builds settlements on their lands, tortures them when they complain, etc. I am all ears!
    >not only the palestinians lost their possetions and land etc etc, and several >brought it on themselfs
You're not the first, nor will you be the last to use that blame-the-victim argument. It's always been used by abusive parents and husbands "they brought it on themselves". The Nazis claimed "self defense" against the Jews during and before WWII. Colonizers do the same to the locals.
    >Just because Scuds launched at israel were filled with cement in the gulf war, >doesn't mean it couldn't of been chemical. a few landed in the HEART of >Tel-aviv.. if they had been chemical weapons which Saddam has shown willingness >2 use against Iran they could've killed over 1/2 a million people with almost >a click of their fingers yet you claim that arab nations are not a threat? poor >argument my friend!
Some Arab countries do have chemical weapons. But using them is a different manner, however. They might sound extreme, but Arab leaders are not so stupid as to use chemical weapons against nuclear Israel back by the US. They know that that would mean total oblitaration of their countries by Israeli atomic, neutron and hydrogen bombs that would make chemical weapons look like toys. When Saddam used his chemical weapons against the Iranians and Kurds, he knew there would not be grave retribution for his actions. He knew he had some form of a "green light" from western leaders, who helped supply him with these weapons. He also knows that the light is extremely RED when it comes to using them against Israel. In closing Nationalism (as well as religion) sometimes makes one overstreatch his "reason" to absurd ends to justify his countrymen's crimes. With your nationalism for Israel burning high, I am here reminded by the following words of George Orwell: "The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them." Your have raised important questions and myths that needed a response. But your arguements are all clearly avoiding the central issue of the Arab-Israeli conflict: namely Israel's dispossession of the Palestinians and not allowing them to return. Worse yet, when the 1948 topic comes up, you try to lessen Israel's crime. This attitude is representative of many Israelis, with which there will never be real peace. Best, Sam

    12 Nov 2000 Amazing page! Thank you for revealing to me the atrocities of the American industrial-military complex. I am doing auniversity presentation on the disinformation of the Gulf War and, after fruitless searching, your page is by far the paramount of all resources. Truly mind expanding!
Thank you Sir/Madame. --Sam

    11 Nov 2000 Dear Sam, Thank you for all the time and effort you have put into your web site. It is really a one stop resource for arab-israeli conflict. I found a lot of information on your site that I couldn't have possibly got from any one place. Keep up the good work ..... Imran, Saudi
You're very kind Imran. --Sam

    9 Nov 2000 Salam alaykoom Sam, Your site fills me with confidence that our struggle is a legitamate and important quest for the liberation of Palestine. I have lived in Australia all my life but regularly visit my family in refugee areas in the middle east. Each time I return to areas in Jordan and Syria, the overwhelming deteriation of conditions is sadening. The people are oppressed by politics and are unsure of their future, especially children. Ironically, the only visual description I can relate to is the footage of Nazi actions against the jews and other minorities in WWII. I am priviledged to have acquired my education in Australia and to have some semblance of my future, most of my people dont. I believe its up to Palestinians living abroad to let the west be aware of the gross ethnic cleansing of our people and the hypocritical nature of western governments, especially the USA. Your site is read by many of my friends and colleagues who have until the Al Aqsa Intifada been unsure of the complexities of the Arab against Israel conflict. We will never give up, we will carry our torches through the darkness and never lose sight of the light at the end of the tunnel. Israel, in one way or another, will pay for the sins they commit against the indigenous people of Palestine, and our children. Allah u Akbar
Thank you for your support. --Sam

    9 Nov 2000 Thank for an excellent resource. It is extremely well researched and was very helpful to me
Thank you. --Sam

    8 Nov 2000 THE WORLD WILL [NEVER] HAVE PEACE-UNTIL THE ''PRINCE OF PEACE' RULES ALL MENS HEARTS!! ****************JESUS IS LORD****************
Yes, but in the mean time what are we human beings going to do about fellow human beings, being oppressed? Shall we be mere spectators, or perhaps be the good Samaritans God expects us to be? Shall we not extend a helping hand to end their suffering? --Sam

    5 Nov 2000 My dear arab friends what will you do when, you are out of oil ? In my opinion you'll have to intercouse each other in the a s s and nobody would care less.
    4 Nov 2000 Sam-This is a prodigeous effort and amazingly impressive.I never saw it and don't know if it is new.Please keep it for a long long time as it is an excellent resouce especially for skeptics and for American Jews.I put it in favorites and hope to refer others to it. I reached it on the sidebar at iap-Eileen Rodan(Amoudi)
Thank you for your kind support. --Sam

    2 Nov 2000 All of your comments are full of hatred,envy and antisemitism.You could never and you will never succeed when your energy is hatred. If you would like peace you wouldn't put the condition of land in exchange.I've never met a peace agreement where the condition is "if you don't give me land you don't have peace"=peace is not what you seek.
See response to 2nd letter (dated 2 Nov) below.
    >If you would like peace you wouldn't put the condition of land in exchange.
Interesting convoluted logic of Cause and Effect. The lack of peace IS a result of Israel's theft of land. Israel takes the land, then asks the dispossessed for peace. If I come with my army and buldozers and take your land and house away, without even compensating you, and perhaps killing some of your family members, would you give me peace without me at least compensating you? Sam

    2 Nov 2000 Great site. Keep up the good work. It's a breath of fresh air in the midst of all the hatred and bigotry expressed by both sides. --Karim M****
    2 Nov 2000 SAM.....you are hardly an objective webmaster in this subject. your articles reek with hatred of the jews. your type of attitude gives us the stimulant for survival that you obvvviously have not figured out, like many other hqaters. May your hatreds dissolve.
Only if you equate "hatred of Jews" with "exposing Israel's countless and enormous crimes against the Palestinians" -- the mission of this site. --Sam

    30 Oct 2000 My e-mail is [email protected]**** an i would like to know when you respond to my comments Please if you do, post the entire message, not only sections. I belive that this would be of great interest to whoever reads the feedback THE TRUTH ABOUT THE MIDDLE EAST Since the Middle East crisis has worsened in recent weeks, and since Arab terrorism is mounting to an increasingly dangerous degree, endangering our own armed forces and American civilians, we should pause to consider certain historical facts which have been reported by an Arab-American journalist, Joseph Farah, who writes a column, "Between the Lines," on 2000 WorldNetDaily.com. [... excerpts of article clipped.]
I will not post your excerpts of the mentioned article, but, rather a link to the whole thing! Here it is. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_btl/20001011_xcbtl_myths_brmi.shtml I responded several times to a similar argument posed by Mr. Farah, who represents anything BUT the opinion of Arab-Americans. The crux of his argument is basically "there's never been a country called Palestine". The answer to that is: SO WHAT? Most countries of the world today didn't exist before this century! As one Arab activist, Ali Abunimah, put it: "PEOPLE DO NOT DERIVE THEIR RIGHTS FROM THE ENTITIES THEY LIVE IN, BUT FROM THEIR EXISTENCE AS HUMAN BEINGS." Just because there was no country called Palestine, does not give the right to Zionist Jews to uproot the people living on that land, steal their houses, farms and crops, destroy other villages, etc, as Israel did to the Palestinians. Whether the "Palestinians" (and for that matter, Israeli) identity existed before this century, is not the issue. That's becaues today THEY EXIST, whether one likes or not.
    >Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East >lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.
Aside from the fact that Arab countries are seperate entities, the same argument above by J. Farah can be applied to, say, Rhode Island, the smallest state in the United States. Does that fact allow the Indians to now claim all of Rhode Island, dispossess all the population, with massacres and ethnic cleansing, and take their places and livelihood? After all, one should keep in mind that "the Americans control 99 percent of the US lands. While Rhode Island represents minuscule percentage". What rubbish and misrepresentation, trying to use legalities and technicalities to deny some people their fundamental human rights, and treat them like animals. Shame! Sam

    27 Oct 2000 Hello Sam: I have been a regular visitor to your websit for the past few weeks. I am also an Arab(Palestinian)-American. I spend many hours every night through your web pages. I am so glad to have found your site for my own education and for the value it represent in educating the world about "Palestine" and the forces behind its demise. If I can be of any help, please let me know. I strongly believe in your mission statement, and we must all act to make it heard. You're doing a great job. Your site is very informative. Naser
Thank you Naser for your encouragement. It adds to my determination and resolve. --Sam

    25 Oct 2000 Hey, i just read your Miscellaneous section: i love your quotes which you have used with little context... where you took a quote of (e.g.) a professeur and turned it into viable political information By the way, by showing the way you have said this i'm highlighting your very WEAK argument... i also love the section on how you wrote about Israel getting new weapons constantly, i find this entertaining because you neglect (purposely, in order to insult the intellegence of people) to mention how Israel's arch rivals Syria, Iraq and Iran have been attempting (with success mind you!) to aquire weapons! some of them have done very well, the Iranian navy and certain parts of their army are very high tech, enough to pose a threat, yet you convay (yet again) such a one-sided argument on how israel threatens Civilian populations, but "i seem to have trouble recalling the last time Israelis called for a Jihad to wipe out all it's arab neighbours....... oh wait, thats because they never did, and it was only the Arab (and iran) Nations that on MANY occasions did!" therefore i cannot see how you can justify your claims about israel and it's growing military power! israel's EXISTANCE was always based around it's more high-tech and more powerful (and smart mind you) army, i find nothing suprising in their on-going quest to better it.. Please post this with a responce once you stop being SO BIASED... you claim your trying to stop Israeli media bias, but your doing it by creating an anti-israeli bias this attempt if futile because (if your right about this israeli bias, which you are to a SMALL extent), since your both bias none of you have the side of truth... and therefore you will fail in your "mission" you are just as low as Israelis in your actions, you are more of a politican than an historian... please prove you are not by fixing all your one-sided (therefore BIAS, FAKE) arguments... if you would like me to highlight all these topics, I'll be more than happy to show you all of your inconcistencies, bias' and even "Arab propaganda" (in retaliation for "israeli propaganda")
The context you are seeking for the listed quotes is THE ENTIRETY OF THIS SITE! The Arabs have always been getting new weapons, but not of the quality, and magnitude that Israel received/s from the US. Israel's arsenal, and her full partnership with the US, makes Israel a virtual extention of the US military. Iraq was the most "powerful" and "high-tech" arab country before 1991 (the same way Iran is described by you). Look how easy it was decimated by the US's high tech and intelligence, which shows that the mere facts that you are "acquiring new weapons" counts for ... about nothing, when your enemy has the upper hand technologically and is fully backed by a super power. Israel's existence was NEVER threatened -- outside of the propaganda realm. As an exercise, can you name one case where it was? In `48, when Israel was weakest in its history vis-a-vis her neighbors, it was on the defensive against Arab onslaught for three weeks only. The next 10 months she was on the offensive, beating FIVE Arab armies (sounds threatening doesn't it?). In `67 her offensive was a breeze, against Syria, Jordan and Egypt (same in `56). It took her 6 days, as a previous CIA study predicted, to finish the war, after destroying the entire Egyptian airforce in 2 hours. A US study also predicted that had the Arabs attacked first in `67 Israel would still have won, but in about two weeks instead of one. In `73, with full preparation of Israel's strongest neighbors, and with their combined attacks from two sides, they ended up defeated losing more land, even though their attack was a surprise to Israel, including their possession of "state of the art" SAM missiles. The war lasted less than 3 weeks. In 81, Israel bombed with ease Iraq's nuclear reactor, without any threats to her pilots. In 82, Israel marched over Lebanon, with minor losses (compared to those of the Lebanese and Palestinians). In a quick contact with the "menacing" and "powerful" Syrian airforce, Israel downed 80+ Syrian jets, while yawning, without any Israeli jet loss. Syrian (Russian?) pilots didn't know what hit'em. The 80+ Syrian planes were, I guess, part, of the many weapons that Syria acquired, that you mention. Saddam's mighty 37 Scuds falling on Israel in 1991 killed three Israelis -- one with a heart attack. The Scuds inaccuracy as a weapon was also clear. Of course, no Arab country would dare use chemical or bio weapons, since Israel, whose existence we are told, is always threatened, can easily wipe out all Arab capitals with few botton pushes. Plus the Arab countries don't have anyway near Israel's intelligence and information gathering, from satellites and elsewhere. Israel can see every Arab army move, but the Arabs don't have similar privilege. I forgot to mention Israel's new submarine fleet, capable of delivering nuclear head anywhere without being detected. So, over the past 52 years, I am still looking for "threats to Israel's existence" -- aside from Arab rhetoric. Could it be that you have been, like many westerners/Israelis, deceived into believing Israeli leaders propaganda that they are "in danger" and hence that the West should pour its money and armaments on it?
    >"i seem to have trouble recalling the last time Israelis called for a >Jihad to wipe out all it's arab neighbours....... oh wait, thats because >they never did, and it was only the Arab
OK, you have two beings, ants and elephants: In reposnse to their dispossession and expulsion by the elephants, the ants threaten, for over fifty years, to kill the elephants, but does none of that, and anyway has no ability to match the elephant power. The elephants, on the other hand, don't threaten, in fact always are careful to SPEAK about wanting peace with the ants, while simultaneously KILLING countless ants and slowly taking more and more of their lands and houses. Which one of these is guilty in your opinion? Which one should be stopped? There is a vast distance between Arab rhetoric and Arab action, that western audience fall for. Arab rhetoric is usually emotional, sometimes even violent, threatening and filled with sabre-rattling, usually in response to someone who stole what's rightfully theirs. Arab actions, on the other hand, are almost the complete opposite (partially due to their weakness)! Now, take that formula of rhetoric-versus-actions and reverse it; and viola, you have Israel! While Israel, expert in western PR, speaks softly and "sincerely" in peace-words, a trait the western leaders supporters of Israel like (perhaphs to explain their blind support for Israel to their public), its actions are anything but. So, you can literally find countless calls for Jihad and "death to Israel" in Arab circles; however, these are coupled with almost no violent actions against Israel. But the countless ACTS of "jihad" belong to Israel, and that's what a historian and an observer should mainly focus on. Usually, too, the waves of Arab rhetoric are a RESPONSE to some atrocity by Israel. Israel has committed many warcrimes, from massacres to deliberate and indiscriminate bombing of civilians with outlawed weaponry, to poisoning of Palestinian wells (Suha was right!), to systematic destruction of villages, to assassination of opposition leaders, to torture, to land theft, etc. That is documented by Israeli and other historians, and condemned by endless UN resolutions and human right organizations. Part of the Arab's violent rhetoric is due to their inability to repel Israel's aggression and continuous humiliations. So, they vent their anger by cursing her in public. In turn, to justify its atrocities, all Israel has to do now is point to Arab RHETORIC! Being unfamiliar with the issue of Arab rhethoric-vs-actions, Western audience easily fall for the trap. Have you fallen for that too? Perhaps you will point to terrorism by some desperate Palestinians/Arabs. But putting this terrorism in its context of Israel's much more vast and potent terrorism, dispossession and killing of Palestinians, leads an unbiased observer clearly to the conclusion that Palestinian terrorism is the MINUSCULE RESPONSE OF A WEAK VICTIM TO HIS VICTIMIZATION.
    >your trying to stop Israeli media bias, but your doing it by creating an > anti-israeli bias.... > since your both bias none of you have the side of truth...
The mission is to show the Palestinian side of the euqation that most westerners lack. More importantly, MY BIAS IS ON THE SIDE OF THE VICTIM. When one implies that there are two sides, one is forgetting that, in this case, there clearly is one overall VICTIM and one overall VICTIMIZER. It is an honor for me to be presenting the victims case. That's my mission. When I expose the wrongs done the Palestinians by Israel, then surely that may create an anti-Israel bias. But that's the truth I am exposing. In other words, the ANTI-ISRAEL BIAS IS NOT *CAUSED* BY THIS SITE, BUT BY ISRAEL'S ACTIONS. (of course, by Israel, I mean the Israeli leaders and government, not the people who are mostly mislead and brain-washed by their government and media). When one exponses the crimes of the Nazis against Jews in WWII, (without bothering to mention the crimes by Jews against the Nazis, which are REACTIONS to their persecution by the latter) then it is not really accurate/fair to describe that as merely "creating anti-Nazi bias". To bring attention to the horrors taking place in South Africa 10-20 years ago, activists exposed the crimes committed by Apartheid regime against blacks. That surely incited anti-Apartheid feeling, but it also IS, more accurately, telling the world the truth about the horrors the victims have endured/are enduring, so the world would act to end them/remember the victims. This is especially necessary in this case of the Arab-Israeli conflcit when so much potent and powerful propaganda is being disseminate by the victimzer and its supporters in Western media. I hope you will sit back and think about what's above. Think about how it applies to you as a western audience (?), being manipulated by propaganda. (I don't mean to be patronizing). Ask yourself this: would you be outraged at a site showing the crimes of Apartheid against black south Africans, without mentioning the black's crime against the Apartheid regime? I am sure you will answer no. Apply that to Israel then. If you still believe that there's an equality of guilt on both sides of Israel and the Palestinians, since you are requesting to see the sins of the Palestinians as well, then I can't help you. You just have been hearing the victimizer's case for too long that it is now "truth" to you. Sam

    25 Oct 2000 The site is an excellent source of information, news, and analysis. Especially with the recent bloodshed in the Middle East, many Americans would benefit from turning here for the best news coverage and true history, politics,and facts about the situation and region. Thank you for making this information so widely available. Keep it up!
My thanks to you, visitor. --Sam

    23 Oct 2000 You are providing a valuable resource. Thank you for speaking the truth. I have been reading tonight for about one half hour. I have had cause recently to search my heart concerning the devastation of Iraq. I cannot accept the U.S. sanctions. I was particularly dis- appointed that neither Bush or Gore were willing to speak out against sanctions. They want to come across as men who will be tough on foreign policy. I have bookmarked your page and will revisit it as there's much I want to read. Do not give up. You are a voice for those who would speak to Americans, if only they could. Michael
Your compliments and encouragement are most welcome, Michael. --Sam

    22 Oct 2000 O.k.. I've read the feedbacks and the responses, and I have to ask you, sam (by the way, is it your real name? cause it reminds me so the name of big country you love to hate so much..). What did Israel do wrong that she deserve all this hate? Why do I have to go to the army in the age of 18, and can't go to college, like every other 18 girl? What does Lebanon Want from Israel, now? I mean - saying that she wants her bursting into flames is not so realistic (although you can't blame her for not trying.. Ho, no). It is easy to say that the you organisation will not come in peace untill Israel become arabien (PALESTIN, of course). Anyway, I used to belive that peace is something that can happen, But now, all I can see infront of me is fathers and mothers (arabien) that send their little children to stand in front soldiers, to throw stones. My mother don't want to send my brothers the the "war". Why does an Palestin mother make her?! Israeli girl. >O.k.. >I've read the feedbacks and the responses,
If you've truly read this page, then your response above indicate that you didn't allow your mind to analyze what you were reading, outside of an ideological frame. The response to ALL the issues you raised had been answered before -- sometimes more than once!
    >and I have to ask you, sam (by the way, is it your real name? cause >it reminds me so the name of big country you love to hate so much..).
If it's the US you are referring to, then you are wrong. I love this country and its people, although they are often naive and misguided. What I hate is the horrible leaders atop it and the corporate media that allows them to get away with criminal behavior and lying to the public. So, I am not sure what you are talking about, unless you consider leaders and people to be the same.
    >What did Israel do wrong that she deserve all this hate?
Oh, please not the "Israel is victim" again. Also, again, you must not have been paying attention when you read my feedback page. I will summarize for you in few words, what Israel has done to "deserve all this hate". (For detail you still have to re-read this page. Check out a recent book-review by Gideon Levy). Israel has dispossessed another people -- the Palestinians, and maintains a brutal and humiliating occupation. To claim that Israel took the land in response to Arab initiating attack (not true) is absurd. Kuwait does not have the right to dispossess Iraqis, expell them and take their land, because Iraq attacked her. When some Palestinian vicitms reacted to their dispossession by Israel, the latter "retaliated" in an-eye-for-twenty-eyes fashion, planting an even more hatred among its victims. The rest of Israel's crimes, including many war crimes, such as the murder of prisoners of war, are echoed in countless UN resolutions and human right organizations condemnations, and is WHAT THIS SITE IS ALL ABOUT, my friend. So, start reading earnestly; this time pause, think, and analyze everything you read outside from the frame of "Israel is right" you have been confined into.
    >Why do I have to go to the army in the age of 18, and can't go >to college, like every other 18 girl?
Ask your leaders. Again, this is related to your previous question, which necessitates that you first MUST understand the situation. Again, start by reading the articles in this site, while placing yourself in the shoes of the Palestinians. Fill your heart with compassion, then visit a refugee camp nearby. Talk to the refugees, or to any local Palestinians. Ask them to tell you their story. You will find one core issue remaining the same: Israel's original sin against the Palestinians, and her refusal to correct it justly.
    >What does Lebanon Want from Israel, now? I mean - saying that she wants >her bursting into flames is not so realistic (although you can't >blame her for not trying.. Ho, no). It is easy to say that the >you organisation will not come in peace untill Israel become arabien >(PALESTIN, of course).
Aside from the "Lebanon is mighty and scary"/"Israel is weak and afraid" distorted implications in the above formulation, Lebanon wants few things from Israel. Most immediately, the return of the hostages from Hizbollah that Israel has imprisoned for years as "bargaining chips". Then, and most importantly, allow the 360,000 Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, dispossessed by Israel, to return and get compensation. Finally, apologize for all the carnage, massacres and death Israel has inflicted on Lebanon. What do you mean by "my organization"? You must be referring to one Hizbollah site where my site happenend to be linked to. I have NOTHING to do with that site, or with Hizbollah.
    >Anyway, I used to belive that peace is something that can happen, >But now, all I can see infront of me is fathers and mothers (arabien) >that send their little children to stand in front soldiers, >to throw stones.
The racist implications that Palestinians have no emotions toward their children, that they are willing to use them as stealers of media coverage, is sickening. Even animals care about their offsprings, afterall. Shame on the descendents of Holocaust survivors for using the same racist reasoning that their Nazi tormentors once used against them. Shame!
    >My mother don't want to send my brothers the the "war". Why does an >Palestin mother make her?! Israeli girl.
Palestinians, like any other human beings, believe in freedom or death. The Peace Process was leading the Palestinians into a form of legitimized occupation -- apartheid if you will, but not freedom. Check out the map of what the Palestinian state would look like under Barak's plan of "90% land" returned, and you will know what the Palestinians are mad about. You might want to check also how much of the West Bank water will Israel control. 90% might sound generous, until you realize that it is in the form of patches of land, disconnected and surrounded by Israeli military. Is this (and is Israel) fair? Especially after the Palestinians have relinquished their rights to 78% of historic Palestine, and accepted to negotiate only over 22% of that, that Gaza and the W. Bank are. Why doesn't Israel want to give ALL of WB and Gaza back? Worse yet, why does Israel want to lock Palestinians in reservations of land, disconnected, weak and economically dependent on Israel? Is this freedom?? If you were a palestinian would you accept such "peace"? I didn't think so. Sam

    20 Oct 2000 We are going to kill all you palestinians! We will slaughter you! You w'll never get your own state! Baruch Goldstein, heaven [email protected]
If Goldstein's in "heaven", I pray that "hell" will be my resting place. Sam

    20 Oct 2000 You almost seemed to be basing your opinions on research and intellect. Almost. The tell-tale sign that this isn't the case, and your contention is one based on judeophobia (anti-semitism relates to Arabs too), is your comparison between Judaism and Fascism/Nazism. I can comprehend how non-Jews can misunderstand Zionism and its goals and purposes, but to use the Holocaust to advance your argument, and compare Jews to Nazis, is bigotry. You should be ashamed that your intellectual integrity allows you to corrupt people's minds.
Read this page for responses to almost the same, over and over and over, feedback as yours. It is NOT Judaism that I have compared with Nazism; rather, it is Israel's behavior toward the Palestinian. Sam

    19 Oct 2000 oh come on! I KNOW you are and educated man but looking at a very complex situation from only one window is just plain hipocracy... Even when u did put articles of Israeli jurnalists they were left wing radical opinions supporting palestinians and arabs. I got to this site by a link from hezbollah's site. Please do not pretend to be the one showing the world how cruel israel and IDF are... I dare you to put up pictures of palestinian acts of senseless violence like those two poor soldiers they lynched in ramallah... So please do not try and convince people that Zionism and Nazism are the same. If it wasnt for Israel palestinians would starve, we provide you with your bread within our country and u slaughtet innocent people and destroy holy places. I really hope there is a god, for your sake...
Read this page for responses to almost the same, over and over and over, feedback as yours. The situation in the Middle East is NOT complex, and the solution is rather easy: IMPLEMENT INTERNATIONAL LAW (res 242 and 194). Voila. Sam

    19 Oct 2000 Dear Sam, May God bless and protect you and all truth-seekers like you. And most importantly, may God bring about the fruition of all your efforts. Yours, Samy (An Egyptian citizen living in the USA) PS: That really is my name...
Thank you Samy for your kind words. --Sam

    19 Oct 2000 Am Yisrael Chai!! It's nice, however, to see that you are using the internet as a medium of communication, as opposed to stones, knives and fire bombs. What doews it feel like to be semi civilised? The Jewosh People.
Ditto... only replace stones, kinves and fire bombs with tanks, missile, and helocopter gun-ship. --Sam

    19 Oct 2000 Dear Sam, Thanks for taking the time, as a web developer and researcher I know how much time you needed to launch this site. And as a human I know how much it WILL cost you. May Allah protect you, you are displaying that Arab have never been racist. Here as a humble effort I send you some links that could be to the site: [.... links and furhter comments about Fisk deleted] Thanks Sam, Soha.
Thank you Soha. --Sam

    18 Oct 2000 free ron arad free 3 kidnaped soldiers you are nothing but a mean group of criminals
No one knows whether Arad is dead or alive. Regardless, would Israel release an Arab pilot who was captured in similar circumstances? As for the three soldiers, Israel keeps in its jails, locked for long years, about 20 Lebanese hostages -- called "bargaining chips" in Israel's lingo. Why is Israel not releasing them, or even using them as "bargaining chips"? Also, read this page for responses to almost the same, over and over and over, feedback as yours Sam

    18 Oct 2000 This site is a dusgrace and should be shut down.
Israel's inhumanity is the main disgrace I see in this site. Maybe it is Israel that should be "shut down" -- or perhaps, be forced to abide by international and human right laws for a change. Sam

    17 Oct 2000 Dear Sam - - I suppose culturally, I can't imagine how anyone can have such condemnation for another. And when I say anyone, I mean you for Zionists, and Zionists for Arabs, etc. I'm not religiously fanatical. I am at times somewhat envious of those who are. At times... Usually, religious fanatical have the distasteful habit of abandoning logic for fanatacism. This applies to you, Zionists, Arabs, Jehovah's Witness, etc. At least the Jehovah's Witness, keep their abuse within their own organization. As for the other three mentioned, ALL are guilty of inflicting violence upon the innocent in the name of religion. Your page is as bad as the propoganda you denounce. I know that there are things in this life that you cannot change about another person. You will read this and continue to denounce the Zions, they will continue to attack Palestinians, who will in turn terrorize everybody to get their message to the world. Everybody is wrong. Writing that won't make it change. Your ! reading won't make it change. The true likelyhood is that it will never change. It is three independent realities. The Zions don't care about the abuse to the innocent Palestines. The Palestines don't care about the the terrorists explosively carrying their message to any innocents anywhere. And the rest of the world is tired of all the crap and is really to the point of not caring who is innocent. Unfortunately, your page is not about truth. That is not the same as saying it is not in any way truthful. Your page is one-sided. Instead of blasting away at the Zionists, you should be elaborating on the atrocities BOTH sides are guilty of, and suggesting solutions. You are nothing more than an instigator, which in turn makes you part of the problem. Stop being part of the problem. Stop contributing to the fanatical hatred perpetrated by both sides. Pages like yours stimulate a hatred for all sides. You evoke hatred from the Zionist for what they see as a page of lie! s perpetrated about them. You evoke hatred from the Palestinians for what they see as a truthful accounting of wrong doing on the part of the others. And you evoke a hatred from uninvolved third parties directed at any occupants of the middle east. Here is the truth: The British are guilty of atrocities toward any number of countrys they invaded the Germans are guilty of atrocities against not only Jews but the mentally handicapped and other "substandard" people during the second world war the Chinese are guilty of atrocities against many of their own people the U. S. is guilty of atrocities against the native Americans, Vietnamese, Africans (before and after they became Americans), and others every country is guilty of some atrocity towards another. Point out the guilt is not the hard part. Establishing the blame is not the challenge. There is plenty to go around. Maybe if you spent more time looking for the solution, any peaceful solution, if all those involved c! ould redirect their energy from hate to peace, the resolution might actually be reasonable. Hatred is easy. That's the truth. Look outside the box. The answer is not inside. From a concerned world citizen
On the surface, you express a legitimate concern. Unfortunately, below the surface there lies in your argument an unfamiliarity with the crux of the whole conflict. This is reflected in an underlying assumption throughout your argument, that happens to be badly distorted. There seems to be an equating of guilt and violence on both sides, rather than a more accurate "victim versus a victimzer" and "cause and effect" formulation. How would you feel if I tell you that, apart from scale, "Both Jews and Nazis were guilty during WWII"? That's how I feel when you tell me that "both" parties here are (equally, more or less) guilty. I am further assured of your only-high-level familiarity with this topic when I see you describe the conflict as being done "in the name of religion". Religion is one small component exploited by supporters of the victimizers. The magnitude of the condemnation I have for the Zionists on my site (in the form of legitimate mostly mainstream media articles) that have bothered you, is fully in line with the magnitude of the crime the Zionists have committed. If you disagree, then you don't really know about the magnitude of their crime. Even their ideology --Zionism, or an exclusively Jewish state, on a land that has a majority of non-Jews-- should indicate to you what those bothersome and terrorist Palestinians are complaining about.
    >Your page is as bad as the propoganda you denounce. >.... >Your page is one-sided. Instead of blasting away at the Zionists, you should >be elaborating on the atrocities BOTH sides are guilty of, and suggesting >solutions.
First, everything on this site is true, and many of it from main-stream media. The difference between this and Zionist propaganda, is that one, the Zionists', is made on behalf of the victimizer, while the other, mine, is made on behalf of the victim. Of that I am proud. The Western mainstream media has done an evil thing, presenting the propaganda of the victimizer, while giving little chance to the victim to balance, which is why the truth is criminally distorted in people's minds. My site is a minuscule contribution in an effort to balance the endless victimizer propaganda. In other words, I consider myself the victim's lawyer, if you will, trying to articulate his case. Thus, I don't see a need to help the victimizer, when his lawyer gets all the air-time and press-space s/he needs to make, inflate, exaggerate and distort his case, while only an extremely limited time is allowed the victim's lawyer? Couple that with the terror that the vicitim's lawyer faces, in an attempt to silence his defense, at the hands of supporters of the vicitimzers. As to suggesting a solution: You obviously have not read the mission statement! There, it is clearly stated that the solution, in few words, boils down to the implementation of international law, which Oslo seems to have annulled. In few words: "IMPLEMENT RESOLUTION 242 AND 194". The first calls on Israel to withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza, the second calls on Israel to allow Palestinian refugees it expelled/made to flee, to return. It is that simple. Implementing it, with a belligerent, hostile and militarily powerful Israel, is another matter. ONLY the US, who has shielded Israel from international law for decades, and has armed it to the teeth, has the power to make Israel implement international law.
    >You will read this and continue to denounce the Zions, they will continue to >attack Palestinians, who will in turn terrorize everybody to get their message >to the world
As long as the Zionists continue to colonize, terrorize and dehumanize the Palestinians, I will keep on informing the world about it. This is going on everyday while Palestinian leaders talk "peace" with the Israelis. Behind the screen Israeli buldozers are "quietly" demolishing Palestinian homes, making new "Jews-only" highways, expanding settlement colonies, while the world sleeps. Nothing justifies terrorism. However, the truth is had *some* Palestinians not done their horrible 1970s terrorism, it is possible that you would not know who they were, and they would end as "just another crushed people like the Kurds". Sad, but in a way true. But, note that Palestinian terrorism is ONLY a minuscule response to their uprooting and whole-scale terrorization by Israel over 50 years, continuing on today. In the decade following 1967, Israel demolished 17,000 Palestinian homes. How inhumane can one get? How would you react when you find out that in one instance in 1982, Ariel Sharon, then defense minister of Israel, oversaw the slaughter of 3 times more Palestinian civilians than the COMBINED TOTAL OF ALL THE NOTORIOUS PALESTINIAN TERRORISM OF THE PAST THREE DECADES?? That should give one an idea about how our media manipulate the facts for us, in this case, inflating the victims crimes, while downplaying the victimizers', if at all reporting it.
    >And the rest of the world is tired of all the crap and is really to the >point of not caring who is innocent.
The solution to end the world's "tireness of all the crap" is to help justice prevail. Actually, the message is more to Americans than to the world. Americans have the ability of making Israel accept letting the Palestinians have some life, without the bantustans of the clear apartheid outcome of the "peace process". But, the American public is naive, and mostly clueless; it honestly believes that Clinton is doing his best to help peace prevail. What's actually happening is that Clinton is trying to make Arafat force his people to capitulate to a "peace" where Israel gives the Palestinians patches of land, totally surrounded by Israel, who controls their borders, skies and water. Then we naively wonder: "why don't these damn Palestinians just accept `peace', and stop bothering us with their crap"?
    >you evoke a hatred .... the Germans are guilty of atrocities against not only >Jews .... during the second world war .... >Establishing the blame is not the challenge. There >is plenty to go around. Maybe if you spent more time looking for the solution, >any peaceful solution, if all those involved c! >ould redirect their energy from hate to peace, the resolution might actually be >reasonable. Hatred is easy. That's the truth. Look outside the box. The >answer is not inside.
My hope is certainly not to evoke hatred. Rather, it is, YES, to establish guilt, or "blame" as you put it. But contrary to what you state, establishing blame *IS* a challenge in this case, when the whole issue has been so severely distorted by the media and leaders, that you (and the Western world) now think "both" sides are guilty (or that Palestinians are victimizers). That is a horrendous distortion! One needs to establish the blame not only for the "little" crimes taking place daily, but mainly for the whole conflict. Once that happens -- once the world (actually the Western world) knows CLEARLY who's guilty, and what it is they are guilty of, then the solution will be at hand. Right now, my task is to adjust the colossal distortion of the media I mentioned over and over. Sam, another concerned citizen of the world.

    17 Oct 2000 go to hell
    17 Oct 2000 Excellent. Excellent. Page. I have just one question. I have heard that some big american organisations such as McDonnalds, Intel, Levis ... are supporting the Jewish state. Is this correct? if yes, do you have any proofs or documents that shows it? Thanxs
Thank you. What you heard is probably true. Corporations care about profit. Everything else is unimportant to them. --Sam

    15 Oct 2000 Studying the palestinian-israeli conflict I am missing accurate info about the actural spread of palestinian (arab) population in the State of Israel, and wanted to know which are currently the cities or villages most populated by palestinians in Israel, including those not recognized. I would be very gratefull to get this information. Thanks. Gaizka
Arab (non-Jewish) population of Israel is a bit over a million. The rest I don't know. Sorry. --Sam

    15 Oct 2000 Hi Sam, FIRST - this mail may seems long but there are only 3 main ideas I wanted to express so it should be easy to scan/read. Most of the text is reference for the 3 ideas. I have not read all the site - so, sorry that my mail is a little messy and maybe (most likely!) redundant. I will follow the advice you gave in a recent post about how to make a start to understand the conflict. [.... long friendly submission clipped for space limitation] OK, that is it from me for now, Do let me know if there is some way I can support. I will alert my friends and others to the site. I will also go back to the site and take a look to see what you reccommend in relation to making a contribution, With big THANKS and best regards, Pat ******
Thank you "Pat from Ireland" for your support, and sorry for clipping your very long post. I will keep it for myself :). Thanks for your offer of support too. Best Sam

    15 Oct 2000 sharmutot, cus emek, inaal rabo, kalbs, tpu
[Arabic curses --Sam]

    14 Oct 2000 Hello, I have several questions (which you may not want to answer as you fear your site will be shut down by "pro zionists" as i believe was how you phrased it) 1) How old are you exactly (this relates to explaining several factors) and if you were old enough, did you take a course in uni about middle eastern politics (cooinsidentaly, do you live in the US or another country? even just the continent will do) I am writing following reading your respone to the Message Dated 26/10/00 I have several points I would like to enquire about Unfortunately no, I do not have your knowlage, and although i offten do see things i wish to write about here, unfortunately my memory only goes so far as to remember the event and perhaps one or two names which for you never seems enough as you want every detail.. either way i'll let you make up your mind (P.S. i know you don't agree with the peace talks in their current state, but they are happening so you have to answer in a way that fits the situation please) 2) I wish to enquire back onto several quotes you wrote about in responce to the message posted on the date in question: "During the age of Zionism, however, anti-Jewish discrimination by Arab countries can be directly linked (but never justified) to Zionism and Israel, in addition to ignorance among many Arabs of the difference between Zionists and Jews." Well, i agree that anti-jewish descrimination almost defenately rose during this time, unfortunately you also state "Ignoreance among many Arabs of the difference between Zionists and Jews." now, this is very true, you kept claiming when answering the message that this page is to highlight Israelis "sins" rather than show the Arabs own faults unfortunately they are a WEB that are intertwined a lot, and you seem to have magically detached them Much of Israels actions were partially reactions to arab attitude. Look at today, in recent days Israel has been holding back mobs of "civilians" (as the palestinian leadership called them) or soldiers undercover as Israel calls them firstly.. you Decide wether people who say they will go and fight all isrealis and jews to reclaim jerusalem aswell as palestine are simply civilians or mobs of soldiers without guns (many even with) Many of Israels actions were led by provocations from neighbouring Arab countries... many of whom TEACH their young that jews are bad and that (instead of teaching Isreal EXISTS, it's a fact) Palestine infact, just a few weeks ago i watched some of my old news tapes.. going back 10-15 years and it's soo easy for you to talk about how the arab population has done one thing yet israel has done another Well, isn't that convineint? Israel has made all the mistakes whereas Arabs were only responsible for one or two... well, i see you have wisely seperated state from people for your causes, whereas you've made very sure to keep them as 1 when it comes to israel The middle east is a very scary place, no matter who you are.. I lived in israel during 1995 when terrorists blew themselfs up in busses.. and you know what i learnt? no matter wether this is a result of a PURELY Israeli mistake or not (which it very well isn't, Islamic uprising is being seen all across the world, even within islamic countries they are killing their own people for god) Action must be taken... this action resulted in cracking down in palestinian neighbourhoods, which was unfortunate.. I was even a soldier patrolling in Hebron a few years ago.. and I saw how everyone hated us (me) .. that kind of hate does not go away when the soldiers depart, even when everything you want is achieved.. many people had cold rage which was building for years because of results of their leaders and israel aswell, it will not go away, and Israel must deal with it... these are not sins, you will see any country taking similar actions if they were faced with these kinds of problems.. Either way, sorry, i have gone off the point here my point was (incase you've missed it) that basically you keep mentioning that there are some ignorant Arabs who cause trouble, aswell as their leaders, unfortunately this is a very old fashioned look, many years ago that was the case today however, they've told themselfs soo many lies and exadurations that the people (not every single person of course, but as you can see it happen) are believing it, and where you keep shifting blame away from the people and to the leaders you keep doing the opposite, blaming israel as a whole, you've never once (from what i saw) blamed the population very directly, but the way you write things makes it very obvious to notice how you made it look like "a few bad arabs out of millions vrs an actually goliath israeli army" which is just not true, it's true in military terms, but it is not a true interpretation of the situation, maybe it's just me, but i think you have to live it to understand it and see a solution.. otherwise what you think is an "equal balance" is actually nothing more than a false sense making you think you are correct. again, sorry if i have lost my point and direction, this window box is kind of hard to write in and reread all the time, so i just keep writing :P As for your comment about Freedom of speech "He didn't agree with Faurisson that the Holocaust was a hoax. Do you find anything wrong with allowing anyone to say what they want to say, better known as freedom of speech, regardless of how absurd what they say is?" well, i view freedom of speech as a great luxuary (one which is very tollerated in Israel (except for threats on life) , unlike it's arab neighbours where you'll probably be mobbed for saying something people there do not like - i've SEEN it happen) Freedom of speech is very delicate.. and generally speaking it is not used if you will result in hurting and upsetting millions of Jews around the world what happened when Rashdi (I believe was his name) wrote his book where he portrayed Muslims as worshiping the devil and following some kind of bad sect (I have not read the book, but i have seen hundreds of reports about it) the result was: 2.5Million dollars for his death by iran and a unilateral call for his death by millions of arabs and muslims across the world. People (Jewish or not) will not tollerate when EVERYTHING they have been braught up to believe in is simply insulted by someone who knows relatively little about them and most likely decided to just challange the system (not the truth). please do not write back about when someone writes something ubsered he has freedom of speech because i refuse to believe there words that can be said to you that if it was someone right infront of you you'd consider attacking them because he insulted you this much, if thats true, you are simply not human.. it's a GENETIC mechanism. Also, although you are very thoroug, I feel i must highlight the fact that your analysis is based on an obsession rather than a full realistic political analysis.. you have almost convinced me on a several factors, except the fact that you lack "sooooooooooooooo" many reactions from arab neighbours and actions from them that it is clear you are not fully analysing the situation, but rather "out to get it"... it is very easy to use facts to prove EITHER side's truth.. i did history in university (as what america would call a "minor" (it's not the same where i studied it)) and believe me we used facts that at face value (especially with other facts) CLEARLY prove one thing, but after a few alterations, the SAME quotes and facts were used to prove something else, sometimes even an opposite side... Your argument is not balanced (of coruse) and therefore, anyone who visits this site falls into the trap of believing the facts, even though you have managed to ALTER their truth to reveal something else.. I expect you to clearly deny this, and i wouldn't be suprised if you did, i just wanted to highlight it. Thanks for takeing the time to read this (and answer if you do) Once again sorry for going off the point a little bit, I expected to write a short message and instead just kept on going trying to prove this 1 simple point Looking forward to your reply and "analysis" of the situation -- TL
Your sincerety is appreciated. Thank you for writing. I will respond to the main points in your argument.
    >..this page is to highlight Israelis "sins" rather than show the Arabs own >faults unfortunately they are a WEB that are intertwined a lot, and you seem >to have magically detached them. Much of Israels actions were partially >reactions to arab attitude.
There's indeed a lot of intertwining, of attacks and counter attacks. (Usually an Arab attack is followed by an Israeli counter-attack that is 20 times stronger, which in turn induces counter-counter-attack). BUT, one should not fall for the "little" attacks and countr-attacks. There is here a full conflict that is caused by an original sin of one side --Israel-- against Palestinians. There is an *overall* victim (the Palestinians) and an *overall* victimzer (Israel). So, "Arab attitude" which induced and Israeli "reaction" happens to have been formed by the way Israel/Zionism came to possess a land that was inhabitted. That's the origin of the whole mess in the Middle East.
    >many of [Arabs] TEACH their young that jews are bad and that (instead of >teaching Isreal EXISTS, it's a fact)
When Arabs see "Jews" as coming in to take the Palestinians' land, and kick those out, do you blame the average Arab if he sees "Jews" as bad (aside from the generalization)? Before Arabs teach their kids that Israel exists, they want to see Israel reconciling with the Palestinians, atoning for their original sins of dispossessing the latter, and conveniently taking their land, crops and houses, while condeming the Palestinians to wretched refugee camps. Furthermore, before one asks the Arabs to teach their kids about the existance of Israel, Israelis must teach their kids that Israel, without manipulation and justifications, kicked out the Palestinians and took their places, committed countless massacres, almost never attacked in self-defense, turned down endless peace offers, that Zionism is unjust to non-Jews, etc.
    >i see you have wisely seperated state from people for your causes, whereas >you've made very sure to keep them as 1 when it comes to israel
If I am asked to be specific I WILL separate between state and people. When I say Israelis do this or that --dispossess Palestinians, for example-- I am usually referring to the government of Israel. My apologies if that caused you pain. But on the other hand, one can't discount the fact that Israel and the US claim to be democracies -- elected by the people, unlike the Arab goverments that don't usually represent the majority of the people. Like other people, especially the US, the Israelis have fallen prey to the propaganda of their government, who tells them that it "defends" itself, and the Arabs attack, and the land was desolate before Jews came, etc of other myths.
    >The middle east is a very scary place, no matter who you are.. I lived in >israel during 1995 when terrorists blew themselfs up in busses.. and you know >what i learnt?
The terror the Israeli feel is a RESULT of the way more serious and systematic terror they inflict on ALL Palestinians, from daily harassement, confiscation, demolistion, torture, detention without trial, etc. It is a minuscule response of a victim to his victimization by a powerful victimizer. What one should have learned from all of this, however, is NOT to ask "what" they did (the Palestinians) and "who" did it, but rather "why" are they killing themselves in order to kill some Israelis. One should place himself in the victim's shoe and analyze irrespective of his biases (I can't claim to succeed in that myself). Had one done that, s/he would have notices the notable increase in the level and deadliness of suicide bombing by Hamas before and after Baruch Goldstein's massacre. Note also Israel's reaction to the massacre. No settler was disarmed. Goldstein's house was not demolished like any family house of a Palestinian terrorists. Hebron settlers, the most fanatic of all, were never prevented from harrassing Palestinians in years to follow. Worse of all, Israel never decided to remove the settlement from the heart and throat of Palestinian lands, a clear provocation to Palestinian daily lives. When Palestinian see, actually, that Israel increases settlement by over 70% during Oslo "peace" process, how do you want them to react? WHen they see their land possessed inch by inch every day, while Israel is talking "peace", how do you suppose they should react to this "peace" -- a peace that is used by Israel to solidify its occupation? These are the issues you should focus on instead of "little" actions and big retaliations. To the Palestinians, you are the soldier who represents the Israeli gov. -- their oppressor and cause of their 52-year misery.
    >I saw how everyone hated us (me) .. that kind of hate does not go away when >the soldiers depart, even when everything you want is achieved.. many people >had cold rage which was building for years because of results of their leaders >and israel aswell, it will not go away, and Israel must deal with it... these >are not sins, you will see any country taking similar actions if they were >faced with these kinds of problems..
Again, you saw the hate, but never asked "why"? My site should help you clear the myths and lies Israel disseminates, and its people and supporter take at face value. What is it Israel will "deal" with? The infinitessimally small and impotent response of its victims to their victimization?
    >...these are not sins, you will see any country taking similar actions if >they were faced with these kinds of problems..
You forgot to add the designation "that maintains a repressive occupation" after the word "country". That should clear out the "these are not sins". A better formulation would thus become: Any country that maintains a repressive occupation, interferring with the daily lives of its subjects --from land confiscation, crop uprooting, theft of water, building of settlement colonies, etc-- will sure be faced with "these kinds of problems". Also, how do you know that the hate will remain after "everything we want" is achieved? Has Israel by any chance explored that avenue of implementing international resolutions 242 and 194? No? Then what is Israel waiting for? The Palestinians are not asking for much, and have compromized beyond the normal. They have relinquished their claim to Palestine, and are asking for the remaining 22% (W. Bank and Gaza) plus the right of refugees to return. If Israel does that, and acknowledges its sins, especially the original one, against the Palestinians, and APOLOGIZES for it the way Germany apologized for Jews, then we'll have another talk should hate persist. Wounds need time to heal, but first they must be ALLOWD to heal -- not aggravated by daily harassement, torture, confiscation, curfews, theft of water, discrimination, labor exploitation, and other stuff that evil colonizers do.
    >please do not write back about when someone writes something >ubsered he has freedom of speech because i refuse to believe there words that >can be said to you that if it was someone right infront of you >you'd consider attacking them because he insulted you this much, if thats true, >you are simply not human.. it's a GENETIC mechanism.
I didn't say one shouldn't be UPSET when s/he hears something s/he doesn't like, however horrible. What I said is that that someone OUGHT to have the right to say it. Period. Be it Faurisson or Sharon. Afterall the Palestinians have been hearing for decades the DENIAL OF THEIR HOLOCAUST by Israel and the majority of Western media outlet. (The interesting part is when they naturally got upset, the media showed that as a sign of their genetic violence!) Second, if you want someone to filter for you when others express their freedom of speech, then how do you trust that someone in his ability to filter what must be filtered and mustn't? Shouldn't YOU be the judge of that, of ignoring "dumb" speech and listening to the "intelligent" part? I don't want anyone to filter anything for me. I will decide for myself what to filter out/in.
    >Also, although you are very thoroug, I feel i must highlight the fact that >your analysis is based on an obsession rather than a full realistic political >analysis..
What's wrong with being obsessed with truth and justice, after seeing reality so distorted and twisted around? I am obsessed -- with ending the abhorent human rights violation by Israel. Being "obsessed" and providing "full realistic political analysis" are not mutually exclusive. One can still do both, as I think I have. On the one-sidedness and twisting of facts of this site: I said this, probably, a 100 times (eg, see the first letter of 25 October above). I will though say it again (and again). What I have in this site ARE facts. The reason you see them as leading to an opposite conclusion has to do with your mindset/and ideological frame of mind which is affected by your background, experience, environment and the sources of your news. I have made sure to read Ha'aretz almost daily, and sometimes the Jerusalem post, Ameircan Jewish press (mostly JTA), and Israelwire.com. For AMPLE detail on this issue, look through this feedback page. Most recently, the LONG Otober 17 response (above). In conclusion, please read a new article that I just saw in the Globe and Mail paper, by clicking here. Best, Sam

    8 Oct 2000 SAM: I recently gave you a feeback mentioning Judge Cristol, who travelled to Israel about 15 times and was wined-and-dined by Israeli high-muckity-mucks whilst he was working on his thesis about the Liberty. That was in response to I don't know what, because I can't find Cristol's name anywhere in the feedback now. I must have seen the comments re Cristol somewhere else. Think it appropriate just to deep-six the feedback comments. Thanks, John Gidusko [email protected]
    7 Oct 2000 Sam: I must congratulate you on the 'Israel and the U.S. Interest' web page. I find it fantastic, and as far as the Liberty massacre is concerned, accurate! I am totally amazed at the amount of work that went into that page. I do have a comment regarding Judge Cristol's thesis expounding the Israeli version of the massacre. Cristol has made something like 15 trips to Israel during the time he was compiling his thesis, where he was wined-and-dined with high muckety- mucks there. His thesis isn't worth the paper it is printed on. He has NOT gotten a story from the Liberty survivors... and I think it is possible he is a paid hack of Israel... along with Mike Weeks -- both are traitors to their country in my opinion! I can add nothing more than Jim Ennes and Joe Meadors have already added in their feedback. I thank you for telling it as it is! John Gidusko LT USN (ret) [email protected] (It is not necessary for you to print the above in your feedback page, however, if you do, I have no objection to my name and email address appearing.) _ I'll tell you the truth about the USS LIBERTY, visit (.< _)W) http://www.iag.net/~gidusko/liberty/ >/^^
    13 Oct 2000 FUCK U ALL U FUCKEN ARABS. U KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE SITUATION IN ISRAEL. COME TO ISRAEL AND TRY TO LIVE HERE IF U DARE!!!!!!! U R JUST A GROUP OF STUPID MEN AND FUCK YOUR WIVES ALL DAY LONG
    13 Oct 2000 i think you shoul learn from the israeli democracy and their freedom of speech and opinions and to stop the hatred
Indeed Arab countries SHOULD learn from Israeli democracy and freedom of speech. I am not sure, though, I would want anyone to learn from the discrimination-against-non-Jewish-citizens part, and the maintaining of a brutal occupation part, and the theft of land, confiscation of houses, theft of water, torture, curfews, etc, all institutionalized parts of Israeli "democracy". Perhaps it is this component of Israeli "democracy" that has generate "the hatred"! Sam

    12 Oct 2000 Bravo, it is high time true information is disseminated about the unjust treatment of Palastinians. How long will we wait for Americans to realize the unjustice which exists? How many more decades will pass while Palastinians are pushed away into "camps" while the Israelis are living out their "just" lives of freedrom and retribution on land which is not rightfully theirs? How long, I ask will the scales balance with bodies of Palastinians weighted to the ground? How long indeed, until the Zionists, Israelis, and Blind Americans realize that "Israel" is simply another version of cruel selfishness!
Thank you sir/madam. --Sam

    12 Oct 2000 I dont want to talk a lot bacause i think i can sum up all my words in one small sentence . This is by far the best arabic site in the world. Thank you Abdulrahman AL-J....
Awefully sweet of you, Mr. Abdulrahman. Thank you sir. --Sam

    12 Oct 2000 Hello, My name is Yoav and i am a israeli zionist, and all i wanted to say is you got all the idea about zionizm worng! Zionizm is what we call our national fellings about our country - israel, and about all the jewish people around the world. Zionizm dosn't have to clash with the palistians right of living in thair country - israel. Any of those things that you call "zionist attack" are a RESPONSE to attacks made by arabs or any other nation. We belive in our right to live in peace in our country and to feel safe walking in our streets. The lebanese occupation of israel was made because of terrist attacks that were constant in the region and that took a lot of israeli lifes. The latest attack on the palestinian cities of israel were made because of the cold blooded killing of israeli soliders. When we kill a palestinian it is usually for self defance purposes only! Yea, you can ask me what about the kids that we killed, well, some were killed either by tenzim and israeli corss-fire and some what killed when the israeli soliders were shootig in to the mob, imagine you were five soliders and a mob of 5,000 angry people came on you, would you have a choice? please common on the things i told you, [email protected]
Read this feedback page for answers to many questions similar to yours. As for Zionism, well, check, among many, the response dated 26 September on this page as well as the mission statement.
    >We belive in our right to live in peace in our country and to feel safe walking >in our streets.
Palestinian have a similar "belief", or wish rather. But they are occupied and oppressed -- BY Israel and Zionism.
    >The lebanese occupation of israel was made because of terrist >attacks that were constant in the region and that took a lot of israeli lifes.
Wrong! Check the record. Hizbollah came into existence AFTER Israel killed 20,000 Lebanese/Palestinians, mostly civilians, in 1982. Not meaning to belittle the dead, but looking at the number of Israeli dead, what you call "a lot", by cross border shelling I presurme, is instructive. According to the IDF website, from 1985-1998, about one dozen Israeli civilians were killed by cross-border shelling by Hizbollah. Note though, that Hizbollah shelling was almost always preceded by Israeli shelling of Lebanon that killed/wounded many And when there is quietness on the border, Israel initiates violence by attacking a hizbollah leader or a site, claiming "self-defense", and killing someone. If you and most Israelis buy into that, then now we know why peace in the region is far off in the future. Also, the total number of Israeli dead from ALL Palestinian terrorism from 1970s on, COMBINED WITH, ALL the cross border shelling, comes to about less than one HALF of what sharon massacred in one of his adventures at Sabra and Shatila! (I am getting this info form an Israeli right wing site, called IRIS, by the way) Does this give you a hint about the disparity of the conflict and killing? Perhaps it tells you that your leadership has been exaggerating things "a bit" to make you become emotional and supportive of their brutality?
    >The latest attack on the palestinian cities of israel were made because of the >cold blooded killing of israeli soliders. When we kill a palestinian it is >usually for self defance purposes only! Yea, you can ask me what about the kids >that we killed, well, some were killed either by tenzim and israeli corss-fire >and some what killed when the israeli soliders were shootig in to the mob, >imagine you were five soliders and a mob of 5,000 angry people came on you, >would you have a choice?
First, several dozens of Palestinians were already killed by Israeli soldiers before the two soldiers "took the wrong turn". When the Palestinians threw rocks, immediately the killing began, before the Palestinian police started shooting. Bottom line is, (as Ralph Nader noted): Palestinian rocks can't reach Israel's proper. WHAT ARE THE ISRAELI SOLDIERS DOING ON PALESTINIAN LAND??? And the two Israeli soldiers that were killed, anyone who has a clue what goes on in the WB, knows that there is no way in hell for two Israeli soldiers to just "take the wrong turn", without going through an Israeli checkpoint that surround Palestinian towns. The event is deplorable, but what do you expect when you oppress people for decades, and then try to send undercover assassins among them. Look at the picture of the soldiers when the mob reached the soldiers (go to http://www.usatoday.com/gallery/mideast/contenttemplate8.htm): you will see that one of the soldiers, when caught, was wearing a keffieh, Palestinian male head-cover! Israeli undercover assassination squads are notorious in the West Bank, sent by Israel to carry out a killing here or there. Like a botched attempt a short while ago, when three Israeli soldiers got killed by friendly fire. These squads (known as Duvdevan) were condemned by human right organizations and possibly by the US State Department. Plus, the bombing of civilian towns, as in Ramallah and Beit Jala, is A WAR CRIME, whether someone killed two or more of your soldiers. Also, what are Israeli snipers/sharp shooters doing among the "poor" Israeli troops? Perhaps to shoot some "cross fire"? Read a shocking article about how stone throwers, many of them kids, are being killed deliberately by snipers with silencers Here. In their racism of claiming that Palestinian parents throw their kids to be killed, to their brutality, Israeli leadership is becoming closer and closer a reincarnation of Nazi leaders. And you, the Israelis, becomeing like the Germans who are watching. Shame! You want to resolve the issue there are two things Israel must do: withdraw from the WB and Gaza, fully, and allow the refugees to return. Sam

    12 Oct 2000 Happy to hear that your disgusting hateful site is soon to be dismantled!
Where did you hear that? --Sam

    11 Oct 2000 I have an idea! Why dosen`t saddam hussain step down from his rule? After all it would end the sanctions. I mean if he really gave a damn about his people. What a joke!
Bingo! It is exactly because he's a murderer who DOESN'T care about his people --as much as he cares about his survival-- that he wouldn't step down. Now, let's here the real "joke": knowing that Saddam's killer, as the US governmnet does, why doesn't it remove the sanctions, or at least the economical portion of these, and stop the people from dying, or from providing Saddam the pretext of letting them die? (Hint: think!) Sam

    11 Oct 2000 inal abook ya kalb [Insult in Arabic --Sam]
    11 Oct 2000 Hi, I see that you are an intelgent man. I read your webpage and was very dissapinted from it. There is a lot of truth in it, truth that the israrli media isn't afraif of showing and critecize it's own leaders when necessary, but also a lot of untruth. For example you have a picture of an israeli soldier hold a dead baby and under it you say how the baby died from the israel brotality and such... while in fact this is a turken baby which died in an earthquick in turkey, and the soldiers is on of the many people israel govrement sent to help rescue people which were covered under the distroyed buildings. You also say that this webpage is made to show the other side, side I have seen from myself many times, but you completly ignore the hurt of israel. people that don't know a lot about the subject go throw a complete brainwash here. You talk about democracy and in the same breath sais all jews should go away from Israel. you say how we should leave this country and then how we should co-exist with the palestinens. to other people who sais similar things you answer in things like: "you are the brainwashed one" or "right lies, but who's lying?" so I have to say to you: you are wrong. your info is lacking and ignore the suffer of the other side. I am not against arabs and I want co-existing. I think this is a good webpage if you come here to read about how all israelis are monsters. but it should be a webpage that teaches about the truth, and it does but maybe 30% of it. or you don't know all the facts or you simplely try to convince other people by your avidance and big words to believe in what you believe. I ask ask you to publish this message. if you answer it plz do not do so by saying something like "you are wrong", because I'm not. you are not wrong either (maybe a little, but who isn't?), but you simplely ignore facts, writing over only what you thing can show what you want to show. at least put a page that explain the israeli sides, and remember to include the thousends of avidance for arab terroriem and jewish suffer in israel. I want peace, and I believe you want peace too, only you want it only in your way. which is infact, the wrong way because it isn't the way of co-existens. and onw last thing, encourge fighting isn't a very democart thing to do, and don't say that "they attack us" thing because that just lying to yourself, you can't say you want peace but they have to do it your way and stop to defent themselves. peace out. Erez, a 15 years old boy from Israel who like playing his comp reading books hang out of his friends and really don't want to leave his home from someone who hate him, but don't mind sharing it. >There is a lot of truth in it, truth that the israrli media isn't afraif of >showing and critecize it's own leaders when necessary, but also a lot of >untruth.
I have great respect for some of the Israeli media, more so than I do the American, with its clear bias for Israel.
    >For example you have a picture of an israeli soldier hold a dead baby and under >it you say how the baby died from the israel brotality and such... while in fact >this is a turken baby which died in an earthquick in turkey, and the soldiers is >on of the many people israel govrement sent to help rescue people which were >covered under the distroyed buildings.
Had you checked this site a long time ago, way before the Turkey earthquake, you would have still found that picture there! As for the one-sidedness of this site, make a search for the word "bias" on this feedback page for countless responses to questions like yours. Sam

    11 Oct 2000 you are animals . whenever you are talking about human right think first about ron arad. the way of kiling and teror is infantil and hopeless do not try to act like intelegent people . you are fanatic and dangures to this regin and to the world get lost i wish you to have suffer as you did to us. >i wish you to have suffer as you did to us.
Hmmm! It would actually be EXTREMELY instructive for the Israelis to exchange, even for a very short period, their suffering at the hands of the enemy, with that of the Palestinians/Arabs. Sam

    11 Oct 2000 Attach is a virus file You have to format the computer.
Happy Holloween! Booo! --Sam

    10 Oct 2000 first of all - if you will not shoot from sevilians home, they wont get hurt. second - you must compremize. use your hads for a change and not your straingth. when you kill as you allso kill your selves. we are not that bad we can live together, and i say it with all the anger i have in me towars you, but i don't go and shoot people , un like you do.
This exemplifies the naivete of many Israelis. You MUST get educated about the issues, before you seek peace. Start with this feedback page with countless answers to exactly the same questions you raised. Sam

    10 Oct 2000 My name is Erez and I come from Israel. It seems that the world you describes here and the world I know are quite diffrent. In my world my grandparents came here after they were putten in death camps where most of their family and friends were killed. In my world my family and friends fought to protect themselves from terror and hate. In my world I want to live in peace and as good as I can. In my world our leaders (most of them) want peace. I saw some of the site's pictures, pictures I saw before. I saw them before because our media isn't afraid of showing us the all truth as it is. I saw dead children and I saw familes that will never be the same. Only I saw it on both sides. I don't know who has the right to live here, and I don't think this is the issue. The fact is that we are here and you are too. I was born here and as much as it considers me this is my home. I really don't care about palestinens or jaws, or about the people who wants war on both sides. All that I know is that this is where I live and where I intend to live for the rest of my life. I only wish that you could live here with me, in peace. Because I don't care what happend 100 years ago (my familly was here then too but it doesn't matter), or even 500 years ago (same thing). I see teenagers burning tiers in hevron and in Rhamalla. And then I see the same thing in Tel-Aviv and Jerusalem. I can't do anything about fear or or hate of other people, but I can see in my own eyes what's going on. And when a jaw is walking in the street and got shot by an arab it ain't good. and when an arab kid dies while his people fighting ours, it ain't good either. And when people go to war, in any sitution, or any condition, well, it ain't good either. I don't believe in war and I don't think I'm better then anyone or that anyone is better then me. All I want is to live my life in peace.If I can do it with you with me it will only be better. because I'll know we went over our diffrennces, that we can look behind race or religion. And the only fool to me is the one who held a stone to throw, or the one who shot when there is other choice. and there is always another choice. always. Ytbarech Hasem Vetitbarchu Gam Atem.
Read this feedback page for answers to the issues you raised, which are the same ones raised over and over and over and over. In short, Israel was born in sin, against the Palestinians. Whether you survived the holocaust or not, nothing justifies what Israel did to the Palestinian, from dispossession to death. Not only you, but Palestinians (actually everyone in the world) too want peace. But peace that is based on Apartheid, as Israel's "peace" proved to be recently, then the Palestinians will, naturally choose death over slavery and apartheid. Palestinians are not mere fools to throw rocks at the risk of dying. They are desperate. They are humiliated and dispossessed, living in little crowded shacks, while holding on to a deed and keys to a house in Haifa that is today inhabitted by some Russian Jew, who says the house is his. If you don't UNDERSTAND that this sad situation is at the root of the present "violent" behavior of the Palestinians --and hence lack of peace-- then maybe you should question the basis of the peace you are envisioning. Sam

    10 Oct 2000 such animals you are! killing israli peaple and than going to cry to the whole world how missirable you are...shame on you murderers... ayelet/ israe/
    10 Oct 2000 FUCK YOU FUCKING MUSLEMS
    10 Oct 2000 Free RON ARAD! Free RON ARAD!Free RON ARAD!Free RON ARAD!Free RON ARAD!Free RON ARAD!Free RON ARAD!Free RON ARAD!Free RON ARAD!Free RON ARAD!Free RON ARAD!Free RON ARAD!Free [... redundant submission clipped]
    9 Oct 2000 You want to fight, you want to kill as much as Isralians do. Both Isralians and Palestinians are stupid and foolish bugs with no mind, no soul. STOP THE WAR. PR. From Russia, Sankt-Peterburg.
Before you ask "us" to "stop the war" --parroting your leaders-- stop your ignorance of the situation, and look for the causes. Then you'll know how the "war" can be stopped. --Sam

    9 Oct 2000 good job with re-writing history
Thanks! I am re-writing the "history" most Israelis and her supporters have been raised in. Didn't mean to spoil the tales of "heroism" and myths of "purity of arms", etc. Sam

    9 Oct 2000 do you know what the israeli arabs did in 1934?
    9 Oct 2000 my name is nadav and i am from tel aviv, israel in israel i want to say that i agree - gaza streep and west bank should be returned but: i do not agree that a fanatic terorists organization supports human rights (ron arad - i know his family and belive me - they are suffering). and about the media - the only one who gets the support is hezbollah. we gave them back all of south lebanon but just yesterday they kidnapped 3 troops and why? because they are anti israli teror organization. >i want to say that i agree - gaza streep and west bank should be returned but: >i do not agree that a fanatic terorists organization supports human rights (ron >arad..
Ditto on both points. But, the famous saying goes: "if you want peace work for justice". After all, Genkis Khan wanted peace. The question always is, "On who's terms?" Terrorist acts are deplorabe, but explainable when contextualized. You must look at how a Palestinian "lives" his life under the humiliating Israeli occupation. Israel's has NOT agreed to give back ALL the WB and Gaza, nor allow return of refugees/compensation. That is the root to the terrorism that Israel faces, which is minuscule compared to the terrorism Arabs have faced/face today at the hands of Israel. One note: when "terrorism" is committed against a group that is occupying another's land, inside that land, then that is NOT terrorism. That's rightful resistance to occupation. Anything Hizbollah does against Israeli soldiers inside Lebanon, or the Palestinians inside WB or Gaza, is NOT terrorism. So, Ron Arad's disappearance has nothing to do with terrorism, not Arab anyway. WHAT WAS ARAD DOING OVER LEBANON, BEFORE HE DISAPPEARED? One may feel sorry for him, because he is a victim of his government's belligerent policies. If numbers indicate anything, then there countless countless Palestinians and Lebanese "Ron Arads" kidnapped/massacred by Israel.
    >media - the only one who gets the support is hezbollah. we gave them back all >of south lebanon but just yesterday they kidnapped 3 troops and why? because >they are anti israli teror organization.
First, "you" didn't give them back South Lebanon -- THEY TOOK IT BACK! Second, Israel maintains about 20 Lebanese hostages, for many long years. Hizbollah asked to free these in return for the three soldiers. Anything wrong with that, especially noting that Israel calls the hostages it keeps "bargaining chips"? Remember that throughout history, governments always justified their aggression as "self defense" and labelled the victims who resisted the aggression as "terrorists". Don't fall for that trap, even if it is your government that is claiming "self defense". Always be suspicious when someone tells you that Hizbollah or Palestinians kill themselves in terrorist acts just because they enjoy it, or simply because they want to bother the Israelis. It takes a lot of suffering and misery for a person to reach the stage of deciding to kill himself. Look for the root cause of things so you can make the future Israeli Arad mothers and thousands of "enemy" mothers weep no longer. The solution is in the hands of the Israel -- your government. Implement UN Res 242 and 194, is the solution in the least amount of words! Sam

    9 Oct 2000 Hey Moe, You sure can create a web site but now you need to develop a brain. You arabs have a problem with reality. You can not seem to make sense out of anything except that you people are always right. You can not face the fact that you are all loosers. Like children who never learned to think on their own. I feel sorry for you because you will spend your lives blaming everyone for your own failings. There is not one democratic arab country. That is because you need dictators to always lead you. I am not sure if your parents should be blamed ot if it is your religion that seems to teach hatred. Any religion that endorses cutting off hands or heads, stabbing in the back, etc. can not be counted on to produce viable human beings.
Aside from racist insults, the crux of your arguments has been responded to countless times on this page in similar messages. --Sam

    8 Oct 2000 fuck you mother fuckers you are just a groop of criminals and merderers.
    8 Oct 2000 You fuckers!!!!! Don't you ashmed on yourselfs??? Don't you remember all the bombs inside Tel-Aviv that killed 200 people?! Fuck you!!
    8 Oct 2000 ALL THE ARABS ARE FUCKING BITCH
    7 Oct 2000 Shut up! You dammn Islamic Fanatics... We want peace but some of you dumbasses had to spoil it and destroy the chance for peace for jews and arabs! do yourselfs and the entire world a big favour and... S H U T U P ! ! !
    7 Oct 2000 DEATH TO ARABS KILL EM ALL
    7 Oct 2000 you make me smile your site is so full of crap i cant stop laughing lol
Smiling is sometimes a way to hide tears. -- Sam

    6 Oct 2000 This is a message to all the Jews who support the state of Israel and Zionism: (This message applies to them only, we know for a fact that there are some Jews who are against all of what is going on) We Muslims think that what you Jews are doing is very wrong.
[... rest of post clipped.] Sorry, but this isn't a forum for announcements and proclamations --Sam

    5 Oct 2000 fuck you anti semite shits! Israel for the Jews death to our enemies
Define anti-Semite! One thing an anti-Semite is NOT, is someone who despises Israeli government policies towards the Palestinians and Arabs. Israel might be for the Jews, but the converse is NOT true. Many Jews have rejected Israel's representation and policies. Sam

    4 Oct 2000 once again, god bless you. your cause is noble and the effort applauded. it's interesting that the visitors you are attracting here exactly mirror what is out there: 1- pro arab views (mostly arab) here to express frustration and anger. nothing changes, this is what we excell at. 2- pro israeli views (mostly israeli and blinded westerners) here to challenge the facts you are so beautiful exposing / displaying. what is interesting in some of these messages is the continuous deliberate effort to (1) divide the arabs (muslims versus christians, lebaneses versus palestinians and so forth) and to (2) portray their action / behavior as the reason behind what's going on down there. let me first express my utmost respect to all the kids fighting the israeli army in jerusalem. these are the true heroes in the battle for justice. unfortunately, they are the real victims too. the world may never see or feel what is going on, and that is ok. these kids will get justice, and they are not counting on anyone's help to get what is rightfully theirs. the safari type of killing (helicopters and tanks on stone throwers) is not only unjustified but grossly ridiculous as well. arafat should step aside. let these people who have nothing more to lose go at it for the last time. there is nothing more to lose - everything else to gain. the palestinians who stayed behind are facing these unjustices on their own (the rest have been thrown out of their homes / country and are scattered around the world). god bless these kids !! they are truelly an inspiration to me. sam
    3 Oct 2000 SAM - It simply appears that when the subject is the Liberty incident, you have not gone upon anything which doesn't originate with Jim Ennes. Had you taken the time to really look over all those referenced sites and books, except for Alfred Lilienthal's 1978 book, they are all based on what Ennes has written. I've seen all, plus dozens more, of the material you state as reference. What you haven't seen is the material which was generated by the survivors themselves back when the event had taken place (i.e., the "other side" as you claim.) It appears you wish to believe that the Liberty survivors, as represented by Ennes and Joe Meadors as only two examples, have had their ever-changing memories get better over time.
.... [rest of large post clipped] This is getting really beyond the scope of this feedback page. The detail you provide are excellent and thorough. But this only tells me that there are two versions of events: one by the Liberty survivors --current or past version, however you want to label it-- and another by "John Weeks". I chose the survivors', mainly because they were there, and because their version was adobted by the Washington Report and many reporters and some high US officials. I would be interested to see the previous versions you mention, if you have a link. (This is the last input by you I will post on this feedback page.) Sam

    3 Oct 2000 Dear Sam, I am writing to commend you on this page to which I have linked from my links page. I am grateful that there is anti-Zionist information which is not anti-Jewish racism, which I detest and think is as evil as Zionist racism. I wish you the best in all your endeavours and your comprehensive webpages. Sincerely, Tarik Abdul-*****
    3 Oct 2000 URGENT !!! PERSONAL INFO:M.B.A. STUDENT, E-MAIL ADRESS : HELLOW SAM ! HOW ARE YOU DOING ? I AM AN ISRAELI STUDENT, I CURRENTLY WORK ON MY THESES, DEALING WITH THE HIZBOLLAH ORGANIZATION. FIRST, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THE GREAT SOURCE OF INFORMATION. SECOND , I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE YOUR OPINION, AS AN EXPERT AND ALSO AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF "THE OTHER SIDE", ABOUT THE FOLLOWING ISSUES : AFTER THE ISRAELI WITHDRAWAL FROM SOUTH LEBANON: 1.DO YOU THINK THAT THE MAIN GOALS OF HIZBOLLAH ORGANIZATION WERE ACHIEVED ? 2.WILL THE ISLAMIC RESISTANCE/HIZBOLLAH CONTINUE IT'S MILITARY ACTIVITY AGAINST ISRAEL ? 3.DO YOU THINK THAT HIZBOLLAH WILL CONTINUE TO EXIST ? IF THE ANSWER IS YES , WHAT WILL BE IT'S MAIN GOALS FOR THE FUTURE ? I WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR SEARIOUS COMMENT, THANKS AGAIN, YAIR
[A NOTE FROM SAM: A friend of mine, known here as Gottfried, will respond to this message. --Sam] Hello Yair, Sorry not to have treated your answer earlier, but the events in Palestine, in Israel and in South Lebanon, apart from keeping us busy, made it necessary to update the answers to your questions. First, let me start by thanking you for describing the site as a "great source of information". We certainly appreciate the way you see it as our main objective is, indeed, information. Second, it is necessary to point out that although the "exepertise" is a flattering description, we are not necessarily representative of Hizbollah. This seems important to mention as neither Sam nor any other person participating in the present site is a member of Hizbollah. Rather, the following answers are based on data, observation and analysis of Hizbollah's quotes and acts. 1.DO YOU THINK THAT THE MAIN GOALS OF HIZBOLLAH ORGANIZATION WERE ACHIEVED ? What happened in South Lebanon is, undeniably, a political victory for Hizbollah. The main goal that the party had set for itself - the liberation of South Lebanon - is almost completely achieved, indeed. The reason for this "almost completely" is that Hizbollah and the Lebanese government do not consider South Lebanon completely liberated - the complex issue of the Shebaa farms (also referred to as "the Shebaa hamlets") has yet to be solved as the farms are still under IDF control. As you probably know, Israel occupied these farms in the Six Day War in 1967 during the attack on Syria. Lebanon did not participate in that war. Thus, Israel considers the farms as land which should be given back to SYRIA, not to Lebanon, in the framework of a future agreement concerning the Golan Heights. However, Lebanon recently produced maps drawn by the French mandate authorities in 1923 showing the farms as part of the then newly founded Lebanese state. The Syrian government agrees with Lebanon on this subject, and thus does not consider the farms as Syrian land. Consequently, Hizbollah claims that it will struggle further until these farms are liberated and returned to Lebanon. This explains Hizbollah's choice of the Shebaa farms for its recent operation during which Hizbollah fighters captured three Israeli soldiers. However, another of Hizbollah's main goals was completely achieved in parallel with the liberation - that of becoming a party active in Lebanon's political and civil life. Hizbollah has a solid social infrastructure (schools, medical centres, charity...) in South Lebanon as well as deputees in Beirut. The September legislative elections sealed Hizbollah's tranformation from an "organisation", as your message describes it, into a fully-fledged political party. This was the consequence of two long term Hizbollah actions carried out over the past ten years in parallel with the military resistance: - The building of the party's social infrastructure. - The transformation of the movement itself from the spin-off of an Iranian movement into a Lebanese party with a great deal of autonomy vis-a-vis Iran. 2.WILL THE ISLAMIC RESISTANCE/HIZBOLLAH CONTINUE IT'S MILITARY ACTIVITY AGAINST ISRAEL ? The party (which, incidentally, tries to define itself as the core of a national resistance, not "islamic" resistance) recently answered that question through two operations: the Shebaa operation and the capturing of a former Israel colonel after having lured him into Lebanon. Clearly the Hizbollah will continue its military action until the liberation of the farms and beyond that, if necessary, until all Lebanese prisoners (the so-called "bargaining chips") in Israel are freed. However, Hizbollah doesn't want the situation to degenerate into a war between Israel and Lebanon. Consequently, it is very unlikely that the party guerillas attack Israeli villages... unless in retaliation to Israeli direct attacks on civilians. 3.DO YOU THINK THAT HIZBOLLAH WILL CONTINUE TO EXIST ? IF THE ANSWER IS YES, WHAT WILL BE IT'S MAIN GOALS FOR THE FUTURE ? The way Hizbollah organised its infrastructure clearly shows that the party considers that it is here to stay in peacetime. The conversion to civilian activities is already under way. The main goals for the future are not very clear. Obviously, there is a lot of work at hand in order to improve the living conditions and the reconstruction of Southern Lebanon. Also, in a "multiconfessional" country like Lebanon, where the intersection between the political and the religious is still important, Hizbollah has a role to play in defending the interests of the Shia commnity, relatively the largest religious group in the country. Amal has lost much of its influence within the community, and Hizbollah emerges as the main representative of the Shia. As for "exporting the Iranian revolution" or "the establishing of an Islamic state", part of the Hizbollah rhetoric in the eighties, they seem to be definitely buried. Hizbollah will, of course, continue to have a religious rhetroric along its national discourse; it will continue to be led by the clergy, and its infrastructure will still be largely, but not completely, religious. However, Hizbollah seems to acknowledge that any dreams of an Islamic state is incompatible with the multi-religious nature of Lebanon. Hence Hizbollah's insistance, in many speeches by Sheikh Hassan Hasrallah, on the national identity of the resistance, and hence Hizbollah's willingness to avoid direct negotiations with Israel and the US for an exchange of prisoners and hostages - in fact, Sheikh Nasrallah handed the matter over to the Lebanese government after having captured the former Israeil colonel, apologizing to the Lebanese prime minister because he is going to receive a lot of phone calles from Madeleine Albright!!! I hope this will answer your questions, Yair. Best wishes for your thesis. If we can be of help, don't hesitate to send us your questions. Gottfried

    26 Sep 2000 My good man-seeing as you challenge a couple of points in my feedback (posted a short time ago), I feel the need to respond to one or two of your, ahem, rebuttals. I know that this is bound to be a futile exercise that's unlikely to assuage your intense hatred towards Israel-but civility has gotten the better of me. Your first riposte: "Where did you see the mention of a US that's in the hand of a Jewish clique?" Nice diversion, but not particularly effective. To paraphrase Martin Luther King and Alain Finkelkraut, Anti-Semitism and Anti-Zionism are two sides of the same coin, with the former posing as the "intellectually respectable" form of the latter. Blatant anti-Semites see Jewish cliques everywhere more subtle anti-Semites and self-hating Jews like to point an accusing finger at the "Zionist lobby" in every walk of life. An example of the former is the Catholic bigot Joseph Sobran, whose articles you've incorporated on this site the latter include such luminaries as Grace Halsell, Noam Chomsky and Israel Shahak, who also figure prominently. Which brings me to your "gratitude to...God-sent Jews like Chomsky, Finkelstein, Shahak" et al. Of course they're God-sent: they say what Sobran, Buchanan and their ilk say, except that they're Jewish, and therefore supposedly ! objective. Perhaps I should point out that Shahak, a fringe figure at best, is the author of "Jewish History, Jewish Religion: the Weight of 3,000 Years", a book which revives the ancient sport of Talmud-distortion and lists alleged anti-Gentile atrocities by Jewry throughout the ages (footnotes strangely absent). The French edition of this tract was released in 1996 by La Vieille Taupe, the "Holocaust revionist" publishing house, with a recommendation by one Noam Chomsky (contributing a foreword was one Edward Said, but let's leave that for the time being). Need I say more? Perhaps I should point out Noam Chomsky's links to "holocaust revisionists" such as Robert Faurisson? Or the fact that Finkelstein's writings are available from various revisionist websites? These, then, are your God-sent Jews. 'Nuff said. Point two: on Lebanon, your statement about Israel, the SLA, the Maronites etc. It's quite humorous that you infer that I only consider those who "slave for Israel" true Lebanese. How do you arrive at the conclusion that (i) I don't disapprove of the manner in which many SLA members have been, at times, treated,(ii) that I'm a carbon copy of Begin (who was dropped by Gemayel rather than vice-versa, by the way), and (iii) that my sympathy for the Maronites is purely self-serving (I happen to be familiar with the story of the village of Damour and its destruction by the PLO)? That's somewhat presumptuous, don't you think? As for the SLA men and their supposed en-bloc return to Syria (I mean Lebanon), to the best of my knowledge, most of them are still in Israel. Oh, and those SLA members who requested asylum in Germany did so of their own free will. Point three:On the status of minorities in the Arab world, your personal decision to live far away from the Middle East in the Zionist-dominated West, Israel's intransigence in pointing out the sorry state of the Middle East etc. I'm sure you've never experienced Muslim discrimination. Soon, few Christian Arabs will: they're emigrating en masse to better climes, where some settle in to a receptive society (need I point to Carlos Menem in Argentina and Edward Seaga in Jamaica?) and others, such as Edward Said and James Zogby, continue to attest to the good will of their Muslim brethren far, far away, as well as the justness of assorted Ba'athists, despots and fundamentalists. They do so from the decadent West where they have consciously chosen to settle (as have you-I believe you mentioned freedom of speech, which is telling), and from where they insist that it's only a minority of Muslims who discriminate etc. Of course it�s only a minority, and of course all Arabs are ! brothers You don't really expect me to believe this bunkum, do you? And, more pertinently, do you seriously expect us Jews, who've experienced Arab racism and violence firsthand, from Baghdad to Casablanca, to simply accede to demands that we reduce ourselves to dhimmis in an Arab-Muslim polity? Point Four: "I can't understand the link between the Ha'aretz section of society and the rest of us who just want to be left alone". It's quite simple really: There is a section of Israel's elite, represented by Ha'aretz, which will go to extreme lenghts to convince itself of the Arabs' just intentions, who will do anything to justify any Arab act of violence, from the murder of 65-year old wheelchair-bound Leon Klinghoffer aboard the Achille Lauro to Edward Said�s recent brave act of rock-throwing at the Fatma Gate to any number of stabbings and car bombings. The rest of us, however, have no desire to be led like lambs to the slaughter by an Arab world which will always find an excuse for violence against Jews. Final point: You're quite wrong. I don't use the sorry state the Arab world has caused itself to be in to justify Israel's supposed intransigence. Rather, it serves as a reminder of what would happen if we, the Jews, were to follow Arab dictates, and trust countries such as Iraq (obviously one of your favourites), where thousands of Jews were killed in pogroms in the 40's which made Deir Yassin look like Disney World (followed, by the way, by the confiscation of all Jewish property-shades of the supposed tragedy of the Palestinians?). See how Syria, Iraq, et al persecute their own citizens, and how they persecuted the Jews in the past. That's exactly how they'd treat us, and the supposed tragedy of the Palestinians is merely an excuse. Until the Arab world undergoes democratisation and liberalisation, we Jews, irrespective of our actions, will never be able to live in peace in the Middle East All the Best NB If you decide to publish this letter, please do so integrally. =====
Response (Noting the limited resources and memory space, this second feedback is the last one of yours I will post/respond to.)
    >To paraphrase Martin Luther King and Alain Finkelkraut, Anti-Semitism and Anti-Zionism >are two sides of the same coin, with the former posing as the "intellectually >respectable" form of the latter.
You have fallen prey to Zionist propaganda, such as that disseminated by the ADL, to silence critics of Zionism. The use of the word "Jewish" to replace "Zionist", by many "Jewish" publications and organizations has helped confuse the issue further. These create the illusion that Zionist and Jewish interests as one and the same -- that all Jews are/should be supporters of Israel. For example, I went browsing and checked the "Jewish" World Review (www.jewishworldreview.com). Everything there is extremely Zionist, or pro-Israel. The same for countless other "Jewish" publications, where criticism of Zionism and Israel is a taboo. Whether you analyze it "subtly" or otherwise, Judaism and Zionism are two different ideologies, although the latter is somewhat based on the former. Judaism is a religion; Zionism is a political, secular movement that saw Jews as a nation, and the land where Palestinians lived as THEIR (the Zionists') homeland, where they would establish a "Jewish state". The difference is clear. Furthermore, Orthodox Judaism sees Zionism --political control of the land of Israel before the arrival of the Messiah-- as a heresy. Naturally, not all Jews feel they belong to the "nation of Israel", but only to their respective countries. Aside from religion, there isn't much in common between a Russian and an Ethiopian Jew, anymore than exists between a Russian and an Ethiopian non-Jew. Perhaps the only thing of mutual interest between Russian and Ethiopian Jews who emigrated to Israel, especially recently, is their search for a better life ECONOMICALLY, not necessarily because of discrimination. Obviously Martin Luther King and Mr. Finkelkraut either didn't know much about the obvious difference between Zionism and Judaism, or are deliberately confusing the issues. Equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism (and more implicitely, Zionism and Judaism) has been the goal of many Zionist organizations, such as, again, the ADL, in order to shield Israel from criticism, using the same immunity available for Judaism as a religion. By calling Israel's and Zionism's critics "anti-Semites", the hope is to silence their legitimate criticisms, restrain the freedom of speech of others, and plant fear of being labeled anti-Semite, in the hearts of those who think of speaking out against the tenets of Zionism -- Jewish nationhood and/or the usurpation of a land from its indigenous population. Not to mention the damage Zionsim has caused to "diaspora" Jewry, where these are now the object of suspicion, as dually loyal. This is ironic, noting that Israel was created to solve, not encourage, anti-Semitism. No better proof to the failure of Zionism than the fact, that diaspora Jewry today number more than Israel's Jews. Or the fiasco over how a "Jew" should be defined, and the monopoly of Orthodox Jews on that. In short, people, Jews or not, do NOT have to agree that the ideology of Zionism is right or just, especially when its plan/outcome for the Palestinians is taken into consideration. But that doesn't mean these are now anti-Semites -- "subtly" or otherwise. Nor "self-haters", to use the silly term invented by Zionist propaganda machines to describe Jews who disagree with Zionism, or just those who criticize Israel. If that's hard for you to see, then regretably, the propaganda you have been subjected to has worked.
    >...Catholic bigot Joseph Sobran... > ..such luminaries as Grace Halsell, Noam Chomsky and Israel Shahak, who >also figure prominently
You may call this a "diversion," but the question remains that you have to judge him and other writers based on what they write. So, again, which of the articles by Sobran that I posted contains bigotry? More importantly, which contains false information or misrepresentations? Or is it possible that Sobran's "bigotness" is directly related to his criticizm of Israel and pointing out some of her sins, especially against U.S. interests? The same for Chomsky, Finkelstein, Halsell(?), Shahak, who shed a light at Zionism's and Israel's severe injustice against the Palestinians? Can you point out to faults, let alone bigotry, in their arguments, PLEASE? Or is this just another attack on the messenger because you can't refute their sensible message? Having dealt with many supporters of Israel, I became quite familiar with their "counter arguments", which usually boil down to either diversion/changing of subject (like pointing to Arab world ills), or attacking the messenger as anti-Semite, because they don't like/can't refute the message. Another issue is that these writers, like anyone else, have bias. But their bias is on the side of the victims of this conflict -- the Palestinians. When the truth itself is imbalanced one can't be asked to write a balanced coverage of events, i.e., assigning equal blame and praise to both sides. For example, no respectable human being can write about the Nazis and Jews of WWII without siding with the Jews, for example. Besides, Chomsky, Shahak's "imbalance" is anyway kept away from mainstream media, which is littered with pro-victimizers like A.M. Rosenthal, Safire, Zukerman, etc., shaping the "truth" about Israel their way, and creating an evermore Middle East-ignorant public.
    >Perhaps I should point out Noam Chomsky's links to "holocaust revisionists" >such as Robert Faurisson?
Explain "links"? What Chomsky said was that Faurisson has the right to say what he wants to say. He didn't agree with Faurisson that the Holocaust was a hoax. Do you find anything wrong with allowing anyone to say what they want to say, better known as freedom of speech, regardless of how absurd what they say is?
    >Or the fact that Finkelstein's writings are available from various revisionist >websites? These, then, are your God-sent Jews. 'Nuff said.
So, if a revisionist website included an article by mother Teresa, does that mean that mother Teresa is a Holocaust revisionist/denier? Or because a white supremacist hate site included a saying by Gandhi, then that makes Gandhi a white supremacist? Interesting logic. "'Nuff said."
    >Point two: on Lebanon, your statement about Israel, the SLA, the Maronites >etc. It's quite humorous that you infer that I only consider those who "slave >for Israel" true Lebanese. How do you arrive at the conclusion that (i) I don't >disapprove of the manner in which many SLA members have been, at times, >treated,(ii) that I'm a carbon copy of Begin (who was dropped by Gemayel rather >than vice-versa, by the way), and (iii) that my sympathy for the Maronites is >purely self-serving (I happen to be familiar with the story of the village of >Damour and its destruction by the PLO)? That's somewhat presumptuous, don't you >think? As for the SLA men and their supposed en-bloc return to Syria (I mean >Lebanon), to the best of my knowledge, most of them are still in Israel. Oh, and >those SLA members who requested asylum in Germany did so of their own free will. >How do you arrive at the conclusion that (i) I don't disapprove of the manner >in which many SLA members have been, at times, treated,
How did you arrive at the conclusion that I believe that you don't disapprove of the manner in which many SLA members have been, at times, treated? I was merely mentioning how Israel has treated the SLA; nothing about you (dis)approving of it.
    >(ii) that I'm a carbon copy of Begin (who was dropped by Gemayel rather than >vice-versa, by the way)
How did you arrive at the conclusion that I implied that Begin is a "carbon copy" of you? Or that I implied/said that Bashir dropped Begin? Actually, what I said was that Bashir wasn't as much of a puppet as Begin had hoped for, i.e. Bashir didn't do EVERYTHING Begin requested. That's all I said, in an attempt to shed some light at a prominent "Maronite" who sided with Israel, to supplement my argument.
    >(iii) that my sympathy for the Maronites is purely self-serving (I happen to be >familiar with the story of the village of Damour and its destruction by the PLO)?
For one, the fact that you here seem to have selectively omitted any of the countless other, and more infamous atrocities, especially those committed by Israel and her "Maronites". Or the fact that you didn't mention the atrocities Israel committed against the Palestinians, which included their expulsion into Lebanon, a country with an extremely sensitive religious balance. Any knowledgeable observer can forsee that dumping tens/hundreds of thousands of people, mostly Moselm, into a small country with ultra-sensitive Christian-Muslim balance, with a history of religioun-related blood shed, is a formula for explosion. Of course Israel doesn't care -- let alone "has her heart with the Maronite." Check out also Sharett's diaries for what Israel had planned for Lebanon long ago.
    >I'm sure you've never experienced Muslim discrimination. Soon, few Christian >Arabs will: they're emigrating en masse to better climes, where some settle in >to a receptive society (need I point to Carlos Menem in Argentina and Edward >Seaga in Jamaica?) and others, such as Edward Said and James Zogby, continue to >attest to the good will of their Muslim brethren far, far away, as well as the >justness of assorted Ba'athists, despots and fundamentalists. They do so from >the decadent West where they have consciously chosen to settle (as have you-I >believe you mentioned freedom of speech, which is telling), and from where they >insist that it's only a minority of Muslims who discriminate etc. Of course it's >only a minority, and of course all Arabs are ! >brothers You don't really expect me to believe this bunkum, do you? And, more >pertinently, do you seriously expect us Jews, who've experienced Arab racism and >violence firsthand, from Baghdad to Casablanca, to simply accede to demands that >we reduce ourselves to dhimmis in an Arab-Muslim polity?
Few notes: - When Said and Zogby "attest to the good will of their Muslim brethren far, far away" they are trying to correct the mostly negative, racist and inhumane stereotypes of their bretheren. I do the same, and so should any human being. What I have seen from my Muslim neighbors is almost the exact opposite of what is portrayed here in the west. Regardless of the way many Muslims interpret the ideology of Islam, Muslim are human beings first, like you and me. I try to inform people about that, that they should be fair, and aware that every culture, religion, etc, has its share of good and bad, and that generalization are wrong. (Of all people, Jews, such as yourself, should know something about being discriminated against as a group.) I apply the same criterion for the west where I live. I don't see the west as corrupt, anymore than any part of the world is, each in its own way. There is good and bad. Furthermore, where do you see Said, Zogby or I endorsing the "justness of assorted Ba'athists, despots and fundamentalists", if that's the implication? Just because my site's mission happened to be focused on Israel's sins, does not mean that I endorse Arab thugs. Likewise, just because Said, Zogby or myself are now in the West does not mean that we shouldn't defend any wrong done against Muslims. - Believing that there are good and bad Muslims, doesn't mean that one agrees that we should have Islamic states -- let alone agreeing to be reduced to Dhimmis under them. I strongly reject that, as does Said and Zogby. Likewise, I strongly disagree that one should have a Christian -- or a JEWISH STATE for that matter! These are inherently discriminatory to those who don't belong to the title group. Seperation of church and state are a must. There indeed is a current toward more fundamentalism and extremism in Arab/Muslim countries, but that largely stems from lack of education and the miserable economic situation. The existence of a belligerent and hegemonic state like Israel, trying to usurp whatever remains of Palestinian land and resources, doesn't help. Nor does the existence of superpowers that are hungery for Arab natural resources. - Carlos Menem was a Muslim. Being so, I am not sure what discrimination you are talking about. Menem later "converted" to Catholicism, mostly for political reasons. - Throughout history, Jews were discriminated against in Arab countries, but on average, not more, actually less than in other countries. Note that the anti-Jewish discrimination I am referring to in Arab countries is the one that took place before the rise of Zionism. During the age of Zionism, however, anti-Jewish discrimination by Arab countries can be directly linked (but never justified) to Zionism and Israel, in addition to ignorance among many Arabs of the difference between Zionists and Jews.
    >I believe you mentioned freedom of speech, which is telling
"Telling" what?? I CLEARLY said that there is no freedom of speech where I was raised! I clearly acknowledged that there is ample corruption and restriction of freedoms in Arab world! As you can see, I agree with many of what you say about despotic Arab regimes and fundamentalist Islam --not with your generalization though-- who are working to convert their countries into Sharee3a-abiding Muslim states. This is indeed worrisome to me as a Christian. However, again, you forget the mission of this site, to which you are posting your feedback. The dictators and fundamentalist are indeed running rampant in the Middle East, but PLEASE, how is that related to the mission of this site -- exposing the sins Israel committed and continues to commit against the Palestinians? For example, why should someone who is fighting against Apartheid in the 1980s, be obliged to always focus on "but other African countries have dictators and are corrupt"??? DO YOU HAVE ANY DEFENSE AGAINST ISRAEL'S SINS, LISTED IN THIS SITE, ASIDE FROM TELLING ME THAT ARABS AND MUSLIMS COUNTRIES ARE CORRUPT? Perhaps you now see the frame of mind that the Zionist propaganda machine has locked you in!? Okay, I'll make a deal with you. If I acknowledge the terrible ills of the Arab world --I already DID-- will you be at least be as fair, and acknowledge the inherent injustice in Zionism, or at least Israel's sins against the Palestinians?
    >Point Four: "I can't understand the link between the Ha'aretz section >of society and the rest of us who just want to be left alone". It's quite simple >really: There is a section of Israel's elite, represented by Ha'aretz, which >will go to extreme lenghts to convince itself of the Arabs' just intentions, who >will do anything to justify any Arab act of violence, from the murder of 65-year >old wheelchair-bound Leon Klinghoffer aboard the Achille Lauro to Edward Said's >recent brave act of rock-throwing at the Fatma Gate to any number of stabbings >and car bombings. The rest of us, however, have no desire to be led like lambs >to the slaughter by an Arab world which will always find an excuse for violence >against Jews.
Thanks for the clarification; what said before was unclear, but now I see what you meant. I don't recall Ha'aretz trying to JUSTIFY any violent act against Jews. However, I have seen sometimes attempts at EXPLAINING these acts --e.g. by Haas, Levy, and D. Rubinstein-- by putting them in their historical context, of what the Palestinians victims have been/are going through at the hands of Israel. It is quite sad that you consider Israelis as being "led like lambs" if they try, for a moment, to see what their Palestinians victims have suffered, which continues today, in the process of you and other Zionist realizing your dream. As for Ha'aretz explaining some Palestinian violence, wouldn't you, for example, try to explain it, if you found out about a 1945 plot by some Jews aimed at committing violence against Germans? ARE YOU SERIOUS when you mention Said's largely symbolic rock-throwing in the same rank as other acts of terrorism and violence? (Been listening to Morton Klein lately?) Wouldn't you feel like throwing a rock at the fence of your once-home, now inhabitted by the person who kicked you and your family out? Again, wouldn't you feel like throwing a rock at a border fence of a Nazi regime? Can you honestly compare the act of Palestinian rock-throwing, with what the rock-throwers have been through at the hands of Israel? It seems that sometimes the blind support for Israel leads one to rediculous ends.
    >Final point: You're quite wrong. I don't use the sorry state the Arab >world has caused itself to be in to justify Israel's supposed intransigence. >Rather, it serves as a reminder of what would happen if we, the Jews, were to >follow Arab dictates, and trust countries such as Iraq (obviously one of your >favourites), where thousands of Jews were killed in pogroms in the 40's which >made Deir Yassin look like Disney World (followed, by the way, by the >confiscation of all Jewish property-shades of the supposed tragedy of the >Palestinians?)
No one --God forbid-- is advocating that you, or anyone else, submit to Arab dictates. Second, you have to distinguish between leaders and people -- mislead or not. When you say Iraq is "obviously one of your favourites" what exactly is that supposed to mean? In an effort to expose the death and suffering in Iraq, I devoted a section to the horrors taking place there, to the poor people and society under the devastating sanctions and endless bombing, where about 1.5 million have died, most of whom children under five. DO YOU FIND ANYTHING WRONG WITH ME DOING THAT, OR ME FEELING COMPASSION FOR THESE PEOPLE?? Or because "thousands of Jews were killed in pogroms" there --even if true-- then that should mean that today's sanction-holocaust against a whole population should be welcome? If that's the implication, it is stomach-turning. More so when the source is someone whose ancestors have been through a Holocaust. The confiscation of Arab-Jewish property is explainable in some cases. When someone of your people is leaving to join your enemies, for example. Not all Jews left for Israel, or are Zionists though. I find it deplorable that these had their properties confiscated. Not to mention that the confiscated money has probably landed --like the money of the rest of the Arab people-- in the bottomless pockets of bloody Arab dictators. Another point: I am not sure what pogroms killed thousands in Iraq in the 40s. Please provide references. But, it should be eye-opening for you to discover what happened to Iraqi Jews in the late 40s -- at the hands of Zionist undergrounds by direction of Israel's leaders. Then, Zionists underground terrorized the historic Iraqi Jewish community into fleeing to Israel, by making it look like the Iraqi people/government were responsible. I have several enlightening articles for your reading, one by a Zionist underground, who, at the orders of Israel's leaders, with an urgent need to populate the new state with Jews, terrorized Jews to emigrate for Israel (see here). Also, check out other books by ex-CIA agent, Eveland, stationed in Iraq and a excerpts of a book by veteran British Journalist David Hirst, and yes, Chomsky's "Towards a New Cold War," 1982. You will experience nothing short of disgust at the leaders' policies of this "light unto nations" state called Israel. Finally, when you juxtapose the "tragedy of Palesitnians" with "SUPPOSED", you are shamefully stooping to the level of Holocaust deniers. You may support Israel, but don't let that tamper with your judgment as a human being with the ability to distinguish right from wrong, or allow your view to be so severely distorted in the pursuit of a political agenda.
    >NB If you decide to publish this letter, please do so integrally.
I make sure to first publish every feedbacks integrally. After that, I try to pick the main arguments presented and then respond to them individually. That's much less space/ time consuming than trying to summarize every posted issue before I respond to it. This is the best way to simulate people debating: one person presents an argument, the other responds to it. Should any reader have questions about the full context, then they can always look right above the response for the full unaltered feedback. That's my way of doing things. Sam

    22 Sep 2000 Dear Sam, I want to understand more about the problems of the Middle East. Your website is very informing, but where do I start? Can you suggest the steps I can follow or can I start reading anywhere? I am not too familiar with the issues, and this site contains so much material that I get disoriented. Please help. Thank you. Nina
You ask an excellent question. I sometimes forget to think about this basic issue, of where should start when in learning about the Middle East. You are right, there are countless articles and books. Books: - "Palestine and the Arab-Israeli Conflict" by Charles Smith. Text-book approach to the conflict. - "The Gun and the Olive Branch", 1977, by veteran Middle East reporter David Hirst, although the book is a bit out of date for post 1977 events and the newly declassified archives for the 1948 war. But, it is still one of the best. Some chapters of that book are included in various places, and under Hirst's author index. - "Deliberate Deceptions" 1996 by Paul Findley. Summarizes Israel's sins in 26(?) small chapters, formulated in a "Myth versus Fallacies" manner. A good reference and an easy read. - "The Fateful Triangle", 1983, 1999 by renowned linguist and political analyst Noam Chomsky. He added three chapters in 1999, but hasn't modified the 1983 parts. The book is NOT introductory however, as it contains heavy analysis, as is customary of anything Chomsky writes. - I also heard some recommendation of the book "The Arabs and Israel for Beginners" by Ron David. Articles/essays (at my site): Anything by Robert Fisk and Charley Reese. Then, you should read Noam Chomsky, but again, keep him for later, as he is not "introductory" material. Also, check out any article with the "@" symbol. This usually indicates an article/essay that stands out. A good one I recently added is chapter one of the Book by Palumbo ("The Palestinian Catastrophe") found, again, under the author's page. Another is an essay by Lance Selfa about Zionism. best Sam

    20 Sep 2000 Hello, i am the one who wrote that long-winded "feedback" on 19th of august Let me start (please don't reply to this first section..) by apologizing, after re-reading part of my message i appear to have let "the moment" (time during which i was writing the last one) let me get slightly over-emotional. I am sorry if i came off as "arrogent". I plan to re-read the past feedbacks once again at a soon date, and am already beggining to slowly gather facts similar to yours (i think one is exactly the same, but convays a message almost opposite to what you wrote), either way that is all not relevant for this moment (the time for that debate will come soon enough :P) All i tried to convay with the old israelites is NOT that we were the originals there, every Israeli is taught that Israelites arrived to the land "of milk and honey". But i was trying to explain that (although you are, in my opinion, 80% right in considering the past 50 years as almost "the present") the issue of who lived there is impossible to answer. I would also like to mention the 1917 Declaration. Yes, I am familiar with it, and yes, it does state a Jewish homeland WITHIN palestine, but if you look at the 1948 (i know you will strongly disagree with this, i'm almost intrigued to see a responce) plan for "Israel", Israel was a LOT smaller in the plans than the whole of palestine.. i believe (i do not know the exact figure, but judging by the map i saw) it was meant to be 45% of palestine, with East Jerusalem as palestinian along with a hell of a lot more than the west bank and Gaza Strip. As the first war progressed (1948), although you claim otherwise, my (supposedly) "Propaganda based" reaserch shows the Arab armies to clearly be the original aggressors. Until a few months after the war Israel did not even have a army plane, nor a group of tanks... During this war... as heroes of both sides did "what they had to do" fought, Israel managed to "claim" land in responce to the arab armies which decided to claim israeli land captured... the borders were not set at the time, that was the purpose of the war. As for getting kicked out of my house, well, firstly i have a question for you, and then i'll move on to discussing that particular incident. my question is as follows: "If Israelis came and kicked virtually all the arabs out of Israel, why are there well over 1 million arabs living in israel today?, and why, if this is a purely Jewish thing, do the Druze (and some beduin) go to the israeli army?" I will start by giving an answer to the 2nd part myself, between the fall of the Ottoman empire, and the creation of Israel, the druze (who are not a fully muslimarab race) were oppressed, that is why many (not all) joined the army and helped Israel fight it's first war. I also have much evidance (Which i am yet collecting), proving that the 'expulsion' of palestinians from Israel was not purely an Israeli opperation, it was partially UN based (i do not know if you find that suprising or not). Also, you claim the leaders knew Israel was never (even in 1973) in life-threatening situations, that is simply not the case. I myself have lived in Israel during the gulf war. Israels own existance has always been it's prime concern, it is why (or as you probably say "an excusee for terrorism") israel has expanded. Yes, the Lebanon war was a huge mistake in my opinion, aswell as other minor skirmishes, but the fact is Israel has, from day 1, kept a policy of open peace, it was the arabs who had rejected it, I myself never want anyone to be suffering, but the fact of the whole palestinian tragedy is that they have shown no signs of fully trying to assemble their lives and culture back together, rather occuping their whole time in order to one day re-live in israel, even though their (probably) Grand Parents where the only ones out of their family who ever did. I am not saying that they are responsible for their situation, they are not fully, but they are respoinsbile for obsessing about it for generations instead of simply (hateful and angry or not) trying to build a better easier future for their children. I have seen CNN interviews where in the gaza strip, children were being taught to make bombs etc... they were 10 year old children, and already have been taught to hate and destroy israel.. now i ask you another question How can israel make peace with a country, where a large % of the population would go to any length to hurt it? it's very delicate.. Either way, this emial is becoming too long, so i'll quickly write one more point and await a responce in the next few days... I noticed your mention of US Aid, yes, it is very true and well known that the US deeply aids israel financially, i believe it's $3billion a year (combined military, investment and loans) but that is not the only reason for Israels great position, wether this relates (directly) to anything or not, Israel is (with the exception of Japan and 2 more countries who's names escape me) the worlds MOST advanced country in the world i do not meen production wise, like china or taiwan, i mean the direct high-tech sector, the latest computer technology, computer programs, plane avaiation designs, and many other things Sorry, that had nothing to do with the subject, i just had to mention it because it was "bugging" me that people might think it's the US alone that does it all, as Israeli high-tech exceeds US high-tech Either way, to conclude, yes, it is possible to say i follow Israel passionatly, but it is incorrect to say blindly, as i recognize mistakes when they are made, and israel like every country has made it's share of mistakes... i'm willing to admit that, but just because mistakes were made in the past, doesn't mean they can "simply be corrected" with the return of land here, and there, because then nither side has learnt a lesson... incase you (or anyone else who reads this) is unsure what i mean by that is that if we simply gave it back, history would repeat itself, therefore we do not, we try to slowly negotaite it back (even though we ARE negotiating their land), a lesson has been learnt by both sides, but the palestinians are yet to embrace it, as they are still teaching terrorism against israel etc, whereas the israelis (the more leftwing israelis) know it very well. and i know that while pure equality is not there, there will always be hate and terrorism, but while there is hate and terrorism, the more powerful will never make the rest equal, it's a simple circle. -- GM
(Noting the limited resources and memory space, this second feedback is the last one of yours I will post/respond to. My apologies. This is not a discussion forum for back-and-forth arguments. You got your chance to make a point in two "long winded" feedbacks.)
    >I would also like to mention the 1917 Declaration. Yes, I am familiar >with it, and yes, it does state a Jewish homeland WITHIN palestine, >but if you look at the 1948 (i know you will strongly disagree with this, i'm >almost intrigued to see a responce) plan for "Israel", Israel was a LOT >smaller in the plans than the whole of palestine.. i believe (i do not >know the exact figure, but judging by the map i saw) it was meant to be >45% of palestine, with East Jerusalem as palestinian along with a hell >of a lot more than the west bank and Gaza Strip. As the first war >progressed (1948), although you claim otherwise, my (supposedly) "Propaganda >based" reaserch shows the Arab armies to clearly be the original aggressors.
First, you still haven't answered my question about the Balfour Declaration: By whom was the land promissed to the Jews? The rightful owners of the land, by any chance? Certainly the British weren't, and the Jews knew that. They also knew the British had the upper hand in controlling the Arabs, and can hence force another people on them (Jews then constituted 10% of the population). Furthermore, unlike in the Partition resolution of 1947, the Balfour declaration didn't call for partitioning of Palestine, nor for a sub-state where Jews are a majority. Balfour only called for a home for Jews there. More importantly, almost ALL of what you wrote in your paragraph above is based on the now-outdated Zionist myths, that Israel maintained for decades, but were finally straightened out in the 1980s, when many of the 1948 archives were made public. So before you go on with your research, make sure you read the following references well, covering the end of 1948 myths, especially Flapan, Pappe, Masalha and Palumbo of the following list: Palumbo's "Palestinian Catastrophe", Flapan's "Birth of Israel", Masalha's "Expulsion of the Palestinians", Pappe's "Making of the Arab-Israel Conflict". Also Finkelstein's "Image and realities" Shlaim's "Iron Wall". And Segev's "First Israelis", Morris's "Origin of Refugees problem .." If your research avoids these resources, or the newly-declassified archives on which their research was based, then your account will be severely lacking. Worse yet, your account will likely include plenty of distortions, from the classic Zionist narrative of the events -- i.e, (again) propaganda and myths, but not facts. Sorry I can't be nicer, but facts are facts and one has to accept them. Besides, the Partition resolution you are probably referring to --passed after some US/Zionist pressure and arm-twisting, coupled with the world's concern over the plight of Europe's Jews after the Holocaust-- in 1947 (not 48) allotted 56% (not 45%) of Palestine to the Jews. So, you got Palestinians who owned 93% of the land (Jews owned a little less than 7%), now being told that they will control only 45% of Palestine. Naturally, Arabs will reject that. But, there was a de facto partition almost and the Palestinians --not their extreme leaders, like the Mufti-- were not really against it. Nor did the Jews themselves like the resolution, because it called for the creation of a Palestinian state too. However, they voted for "acceptance" as ONLY a tactic, in anticipation of Arab rejection. (One of the myth cleared out during the 1980s). Once we are stronger we will abolish partition and expand to thewhole of Palestine, explained Ben-Gurion. So, in short, the Arabs wanted one state in the whole of Palestine (no mention of kicking the Jews who were there out). While the Jews wanted all of Palestine, and perhaps more, but being pragmatic called for only partition (the revisionists, unlike labor, always stated more of what's on their mind: that they wanted all of Palestine and Transjordan). Since the ideology of Zionism envisioned a Jewish majority in the Jewish part, force was thus the only way to achieve this Zionist dream, since the Palestinians in the future Jewish state weren't about to leave their homes voluntarily for the Jews. Civil war erupted after the resolution. Both sides were guilty of terrorism, especially the LEHI and IZL of Shamir and Begin, who favored "booby-trapped trucks in crowded arab markets" method -- ironically 50-year before Hamas followed suit and is now being labeled terrorism. RHETORICALLY, Ben-Gurion denounced their actions, but ACTUALLY, he didn't do much. (It was only until later, around June 1948, that Ben-Gurion did something about Begin's IZL, BUT that was because they challenged his leadership, not because of the terrorizing and massacring they committed against the Palestinians.) Indeed Ben-Gurion's Haganah did similar terrorizing of their own. So, the Jewish area of Palestine under partition (56%) contained about 45% Arabs!! That surely will not lead to a viable JEWISH state, in line with the Zionist ideology of the state. The only solution to this problem is, ethnic cleansing, by Haganah and other forces. Indeed that's what took place *BEFORE* May 15, beginning March `48, and the implementation of Plan Dalet. It is also noteworthy that this cleansing also included areas *OUTSIDE* the Jewish area under partition. The Jews figured that since the Arabs rejected partition now they have a carte blanche to conquest. (Like if you don't agree to divide your huge yard among me and you, that gives me the right to come and start taking whatever I want.) In May 15, 1948 the Arabs didn't really "attack," they tried to INTERVENE against the ongoing expulsion and massacre of Palestinians, as well as the encroachment by the Jews beyond their alloted UN borders. Both Haganah and Irgun had joined forces in terrorizing Haifa and Jaffa major Arab centers -- *BEFORE* the arab armies intervened/"attacked". The same for Deir Yassin, which took place *OUTSIDE* of land allotted for the Jewish state, and *BEFORE* arab armies intervened/"attacked". The same for West Jerusalem, also way *OUTSIDE* of the area alloted for Jews. The same for Acre, located *OUTSIDE* the Jewish areas under partition, which was besieged *BEFORE* Arab intervention. The Deir Yassin massacre in particular, which also included rapes, along with other terror tactics used everywhere else, like loud speakers encouraging Arabs to leave to save their lives, and fake sounds of wails, sirens and loud bombs thrown into civilian areas, all helped for the "miraculous" clearing of the land and the "voluntary" departure of the inferior race. More importantly, many of these things happened --again-- *BEFORE* the Arab "attack" of May 15 and *OUTSIDE* the area alloted for Jews. What do the words *BEFORE* and *OUTSIDE* tell you about who started the war?
    >Until a few months after the war Israel did not even have a army plane, >nor a group of tanks...
This pretty much echos the "David versus Goliath" story, another myth discarded in the 1980s. The Arabs planned to intervene ONLY two weeks before May 15. They had heard of one atrocity after another, some real and some exaggerated, and after about HALF of the 1948 Palestinian refugees came flooding their countries. (Yes, about half of the known 1948 refugees have been terrorized into fleeing *BEFORE* Arab intervention. Another hint for you.) Arab governments found themselves in a position where they had to intervene, or face the anger of their people that witnessed the endless flood of refugees telling horror stories. Second, the state of Israel's military you describe has to be measured in relation to the "attacking" Arab forces. The 1948-49 war lasted about 10 months more or less. Of this, the Arab "armies" were on the offensive for ONLY the first three weeks, or about 7% of the duration! The Arab armies were ill- organized, mostly ill-trained palace guards, under different commands, lacking coordination, coming from countries that had their share of rivalries and occupation, and their food supplies didn't last for more than few days. In the words of US Sec of State Marshall, (a former US army Chief of Staff): "Lebanon has no real army". Syria "has neither arms, nor an army worthy of the name". Iraq "cannot afford to move more than a handful of troops" to Palestine, while Egypt, which suffered from "strikes and disorders" was militarily weak. The only military force was TransJordan's 5,000 soldiers, no match to the over 60,000 Jewish soldiers (with 30,000 more on reserve) that were well-trained, well-organized, well-motivated with one central and united command. The total of Arab armies from five countries was around 17-20,000 soldiers, with 30,000 more reserve. All of these facts reversed the roles of David and Goliath in the original Zionist narrative-myth. Also, King Abdullah of TransJordan was in collusion with the Jews to divide Palestine, where he would take what today is the West Bank (more or less) and the Jews the rest.
    >"If Israelis came and kicked virtually all the arabs out of Israel, >why are there well over 1 million arabs living in israel today?
Israelis didn't kick out all Arabs, but the majority. Yes they left some, like the Christians of Nazareth, (perhaps to avoid the anger of Christian Western world), but also many other non-Christian towns. Rabin admits in his memoirs to taking part in the deliberate, and BenGurion ordered, expulsions of Lydda-Ramla towns. It is helpful to remember that Zionist ideology didn't call for a PURELY Jewish state, but just a Jewish state, i.e. where Jews would constitute a majority. So a minority non-Jews would be tolerable. About 160,000 Arabs were allowed to stay --albeit living under a harsh military rule in army-surrounded towns (what happened to Balfour's call to protect the rights of non-Jews?)-- while 750,000 were expelled or fled and were never allowed back. The 160,000 are the ones who became one million today. Many of those who stayed were also internal refugees from other parts of what became Israel. Their houses were either taken over by Jews, or were destroyed.
    >I also have much evidance (Which i am yet collecting), proving that the >'expulsion' of palestinians from Israel was not purely an Israeli >opperation, it was partially UN based (i do not know if you find that >suprising or not).
The million-dollar question here of course is: IF ISRAEL DIDN'T ALONE CAUSE THE ARABS TO FLEE --nor wanted them to, supposedly-- WHY THEN DIDN'T IT ALLOW THEM BACK, AS REQUIRED BY INTERNATIONAL AND HUMAN RIGHTS LAWS, NOT TO MENTION BASIC MORALS????? Why did Israel totally wipe out 400+ Palestinian villages in 1948 and mine/barbwire others? Isn't it time for Israel to own up to her actions instead of exhausting every loop-hole and legality of assigning blame to Arabs, British, UN, or Eskimos? Instead of you saying "we make mistakes like any other country does", isn't it better to come out and just say it like it is: "We coveted their land, pure and simple, and expulsion was the only way we could do it"? Isn't it right and ethical to begin restituting the Palestinians for the misery and hardship, not to mention death and persecution, caused them by Israel, instead of giving them miserable bread-crumbs in the present "peace process"?
    >and why, if this is a purely Jewish thing, do the Druze (and some beduin) >go to the israeli army?" I will start by giving an answer to the 2nd part >myself, between the fall of the Ottoman empire, and the creation of Israel, >the druze (who are not a fully muslimarab race) were oppressed, that is >why many (not all) joined the army and helped Israel fight it's first war.
Druze had animosity with Muslims, and some did collaborate with the invaders. Not all Druze though. Why, for example, didn't Golan's Druze --the majority of population there-- follow suit after 1967, as they mostly reject(ed) Israeli citizenship and proudly call(ed) themselves Syrians? Why didn't the Lebanese Druze side with Israel during its 1982 invasion of Lebanon, like some Maronites did? (I am not sure about your use of the word "race" in reference to Druze.) But ULTIMATELY, what does the loyalty of some Druze have to do with the Arab-Israeli conflict, whose core is the dispossession of the Palestinians by Israel?? Or is this another of the many diversion and smokescreen techniques taught by Israel to its followers, to show the ills of the Arab world, when one asks them about what Israel did to the Palestinians?
    >Also, you claim the leaders knew Israel was never (even in 1973) in >life-threatening situations, that is simply not the case. I myself >have lived in Israel during the gulf war. Israels own existance has >always been it's prime concern, it is why (or as you probably say "an >excusee for terrorism") israel has expanded.
If Israel TRULY believed its existence was endangered at the time, why then didn't it use its nuclear weapons, as we all know she would? Arabs leaders also know about Israel's nukes, and would, thus, never dare endanger Israel -- assuming they have the ability to do so. Also, there is a difference between "being in a life-threatening situation," and "THINKING you are in a life- threatening situation." In 1973 and during the Gulf War Israel for a MOMENT DID feel threatened. But, in 73, it became clear, as Israeli leaders admitted, that the intention of Egypt and Syria was not to threaten Israel, but to make a statement (Egypt) and liberate the Golan Heights (Syria). After the first Skud from Saddam it also became clear that there was no danger to Israel's existence. Other than that there hasn't been any "threat to Israel's existence" in the past half century. I didn't get what you mean when reasoning that Israel has expanded BECAUSE it is concerned about its existence!? After all, if you are truly concerned about your existence, the last thing you want to do is provoke those who are supposedly gonna wipe you out by taking more of their land.
    >Yes, the Lebanon war was a huge mistake in my opinion, aswell as other minor >skirmishes,
The 2,000 civilians massacred at Sabra and Shatila would justly be outraged at you describing what happened to them as just a "mistake", especially that it was neither the first nor the last time that such "mistakes", the killing of their brethren, were committed by Israel. The same for the 17,000 civilians that Israel killed with outlawed weapons, from cluster, to phosphoric, to implosion bombs. The same for "skirmishes" which probably include the massacre at Qana. If all these were mistakes, then why not try to stop them from recurring, and reprimand those who committed them? Hint: What happened to Sharon, Eitan and others, after Sabra and Shatilla? Or Sharon after Qibya? Or Begin/Shamir after Deir Yassin and Bernadotte? Rabin after Lydda-Ramle? Most of these terrorists and war criminals even became Israeli ministers. How should the Palestinians react to this, Israel's clear lack of respect to Palestinians lives, when their killers are honored by Israel? If Israel's sincere, then how about issuing public apology, and pay reparations for other Israeli "mistakes" like uprooting an entire people? That, coupled with the fact that the "mistakes" Israel recognize are usually the ones that led to the tarnishing of her public image, not because Palestinians/Arabs were slaughtered.
    >but the fact is Israel has, from day 1, kept a policy >of open peace, it was the arabs who had rejected it
Woooah!! Another major myth successfully propagated by Israel, and swallowed by you -- a byproduct of your passionate attachment. Check out the rejection of repatriation of refugees offered to Ben Gurion and Dayan immediately after 48 by Syria's president Zaim. Israel rejected it in order to maintain trouble at its borders --refugees living there-- to give her pretext to expand later, as she did. The countless offers by the US, Arabs, UN, Palestinians, after 1967 rejected by Israel are a testament. In your research, look for the following keywords: Jarring mission, the Rogers plan, of the late 60s early 70s, Sadat's 1971 offer of peace, PLO's 1976 offer, the 1977 Carter Comprehensive Peace Plan (later modified to meet Israeli conditions), the 1981 Prince Fahd Peace Plan, the 1982 Reagan Peace Plan, the 1982 Arab Fez Peace Plan, the 1988 PLO Peace Plan and the 1989 Bush Peace plan. All pretty much included recognition of Israel's right to exist. The problem for Israel, leading to her REJECTION of them ALL-- was that some included a Palestinian state's right to exist and return of land Israel occupied in 67. (Read a monumental book by Chomsky called "Fateful Triangle".) Furthermore, why did Israel ALWAYS reject to meet with the Palestinians, until forced to it by the US? Israel reason in her words was first that "there is no such thing as Palestinian people". Then it was that she would never negotiate with terrorists (look who's talking!) Or that she can't give land back, because that would endanger her security (ie, that Israel's security is based on denying the Palestinians justice!) After 1973 Israel wanted to settle with Arab countries, but not with Palestinians. Until the Intifada wrecked Israel's "humane" image in the eyes of the world. Now, perhaps, you are beginning to see the roots of lack of peace in the Middle East -- if your passion does not get in the way, that is. The only reason Israel accepted a return of Sinai, aside from US offer of endless cash and weaponry, is the 1973 war. Otherwise, it would have accepted Sadat's 1971 offer which was pretty much identical to the camp david one, and prevented the massive loss of life on both side in 1973. Also, had it not been for the intifada and the intervention of Bush-Baker later, there wouldn't be a "peace process" to return some land to Palestinians. So, a correction to your statement above is the following: ISRAEL, FROM DAY ONE, REJECTED EVERYTHING THAT INCLUDED A TRUE PALESTINIAN RIGHT TO SELF DETERMINATION ON THE WEST BANK AND GAZA AND FULL RETURN OF LAND IT OCCUPIED IN 1967, AND RETURN OF REFUGEES. A good exercise for a young historian like yourself, who is interested in truth --and not just trying to prove that his side is right-- is to prove that the above is wrong.
    >the fact of the whole palestinian tragedy is that they have shown no signs >of fully trying to assemble their lives and culture back together, rather >occuping their whole time in order to one day re-live in israel, even >though their (probably) Grand Parents where the only ones out of their >family who ever did. I am not saying that they are responsible for their >situation, they are not fully, but they are respoinsbile for obsessing >about it for generations instead of simply (hateful and angry or not) >trying to build a better easier future for their children.
Where would the Palestinians "assemble their lives and culture back together" except in a land of their own, free from brutal occupation? Secondly, if Jews have "obsessed" themselves with return for 2000 years, then why do you deny the Palestinians doing the same for only 50 years?
    >Sorry, that had nothing to do with the subject, i just had to mention it >because it was "bugging" me that people might think it's the US alone that >does it all, as Israeli high-tech exceeds US high-tech
No one denies that Israel has done a great deal on her own. However, the pressing question is: without the US where would Israel be today?
    >but the palestinians are yet to embrace it, as they are still teaching >terrorism against israel
What the Palestinians teach their children in not "terrorism" nor "hate" but truth. When a Jew teaches his children about what the Nazis did to his ancestors, he's not teaching him about terrorism or hate. When Palestinians tell their children that the Jews took their land away, these are facts. To them terrorism is heroism against an enemy that robbed them from their land and CONTINUE to do so. Many of their brothers, fathers and uncles are in jail endlessly WITHOUT trial or evidence. Some were/are being tortured. Some of their houses were/are being demolished, to build a for-Jews-only highway. Palestinian towns are under endless and suffocating closures and Palestinian economy is in ever peril, and unemployment high. 81% of Palestinian water is stolen daily by Israel and their crops die. Palestinians who are in serious health risk have to wait for hours in ambulances stuck at Israeli check points. These things are happening today, all the times. Do still feel you have the guts to look a Palestinian in the eye and ask him: "why are you still teaching your kids terrorism or hate?" Only when Israel ceases to be the brutal occupier and recognizes Palestinian rights, including return/restitution of refugees, that Palestinians will start to see Israel as a true and sincere partner. Israel allows any Jew anywhere to "return", so why not allow the same for Palestinians, many of whom are rottening in wretched camps? Could racism be a factor in Israel's fear to endanger the "Jewish character" of the state, by allowing a Palestinian return? The current "negotiations" and "peace process" are mostly an Israeli attempt to legitimize control of Palestinian lives and resources, and annul international laws with the approval of some Palestinian leaders. Israel figured that why not give the control of the inner towns and crowded Palestinians centers to Palestinians. Let them do the trash and tax collection, while we (Israel) continue to control their borders, water, skies, and will have the right to interfere any time we say we feel "threatened" (these are the leaked terms of the current "peace" process/camp David II). Would you, as a Palestinian accept such a humiliating "peace" as Arafat is forced to do by Israel and Clinton today? Would you accept your map looking like a couple of disconnected and overcrowded patches of land, surrounded by Israeli settlements, and criss-crossed by "for Jews only" highways, kinda like South Africa did to the blacks during Apartheid, with ISRAEL'S HELP TO CIRCUMVENT WORLD EMBARGO, mind you? (Check the final status map presented to Arafat, and the leaked terms of the Camp David II accord, in www.fmep.org and Fisk's recent article). This is no peace; this is capitulations and the Palestinian people know it, but are too weak to do anything about it. Implementing international law is the only way to peace, notably resolutions 242 and 194. PERIOD.
    >yes, it is possible to say i follow Israel passionatly, but it is incorrect >to say blindly, as i recognize mistakes when they are made, and israel like >every country has made it's share of mistakes...
Passion is not bad. Obviously, I have some myself. BUT, passion that is not coupled with REASON and SOLID FACTS, will lead to, yes, irrationality and blind support. Recognizing one's SINS (not just "mistakes") is nice, but is in no way enough. One has to SINCERELY and HONESTLY set about to correct them in a somewhat just way, let alone continue to engage in them today. Israel continues to build settlements as we speak, on Palestinian confiscated land and demolished homes. At the beginning of the "peace" process, Israeli settlers on stolen land numbered around 120,000. Today the number is over 200,000. Does that indicate to you an "open peace" policy, and a sincere desire for peace on the part of your Israel? Does it occur to you at all that Israel is just trying to create facts on the ground, under the cover of "peace", that the Palestinians will have to swallow (or US taxpayers to pay up for) later? Finally, before you begin your research, make sure to stay away from myths and propaganda-based Zionist accounts I referred to above. Begin reading some of the references I recommended above. You can start with Ha'aretz articles by Gideon Levy, that I archived, most recently this one. Full justice is impossible. No one is asking for Israelis to leave all of Israel for the Palestinians. The Palestinians are making the greatest compromise by asking ONLY for 22% of Palestine back, (the area of the 1967-occupied West Bank and Gaza). Quit seeking treaties as a way to end conflict. At least quit seeking a treaty with corrupt leaders that don't represent the majority of their people. Start showing humanity and compassion toward the Palestinians, instead of locking and torturing them in the name of preserving your security. A fundamentally just solution is to treat Palestinians as true brothers, and enough of this Jewish preference (Zionism) thing. Publicly acknowledge (you and Israel) the massive wrong done them. Apologize and ask forgiveness for the dispossession, murder and inhumanity you inflicted. Show your true contrition and desire for compensation by creating a bi-national state in all of Palestine and give ALL equality and citizenship regardless of religion. Finally, allow refugees wishing to return to do so, and/or pay compensation. Alas, her actions today tell me that Israel doesn't want any of that; its desire does NOT seem to be a justice-based peace. It only wants to get rid of the Palestinian problem once and for all, with extremely minimal payback -- but with the nice appearance of "peace", that is in reality nothing but capitulation of the Palestinians. Best, Sam
Sep 19, 2000 The following is from an exchange I had with some Liberty survivors after informing them about receiving a feedback from Mr. John Weeks (see Aug 21 below). I am posting only the relevant elements of these discussions.
    FROM SURVIVOR JOE MEADORS Hello Sam, There is an oft-made claim that the US government has already investigated the attack on the USS Liberty (indeed, some have made the ludicrous claim that the US government has conducted a dozen or so investigations of the attack) the US government has NEVER investigated the attack on the USS Liberty. USS Liberty survivors have searched for evidence for just such an investigation for over 30 years with no success. True, the USS Liberty has been referred to in passing in other investigations conducted by various US government bodies, but the attack itself has never been the subject of any US government investigation whatsoever. As to Mr. Week's request that you refer him to one reliable source that the flag was flying -- he already has been but apparently doesn't view USS Liberty survivors as reliable sources. I was one of the Signalmen on the USS Liberty and ensured the flag was flying throughout the attack. When I noticed the flag had been shot down during the air attack Frank Brown and I raised Holiday Colors (our largest flag) on one of our port halyards. That flag flew throughout the torpedo boat attack. It is strange that Mr. Weeks made this request of you since he knows this fact from the usenet discussions we had some time ago. I also personally invited Mr. Weeks to attend our reunion at which he could speak with numerous USS Liberty survivors who were on deck and saw the flag flying -- he declined my invitation citing fear for his personal safety. One account of the attack on the USS Liberty that has received a following especially from those who hold the position that the attack was an accident was a dissertation written by an obscure Florida bankruptcy judge. Apparently unknown to those who have accepted this version without question and present it as infallible truth is the fact that we have documented at least two instances of the author fabricating interviews contained in his dissertation. In another instance he included a letter in his dissertation without bothering to receive permission from the author of that letter. These facts alone raise serious doubts as to the veracity of the remainder of the information included in his dissertation. Warmest regards, Joe Meadors Vice President USS Liberty Veterans Association http://www.ussliberty.com ============================= ============================= FROM SURVIVOR JIM ENNES .... [Mike Weeks] seems to be making a career of attempting to discredit the eyewitness reports of survivors of the attack. For one thing, despite Weeks's claims, we were fired upon until 3:15 and no offer of help or apology came until about 4:30. Life is too short for endless debate with people whose only purpose in life seems to be defending the State of Israel against the eyewitness reports of people who were attacked. You need only consider that Liberty survivors are unanimous, along with their skipper, in reporting that the Israeli version of the attack is untrue and that the attack was deliberate. And we are joined by such senior Americans in positions to know as Admiral Tom Moorer, Admiral Bobby Inman, General Marshall Carter, Secretary of State Dean Rusk and many others. Mike Weeks was not there. He stands almost alone among Americans who claim to know more of this attack than we who saw it first hand. Check http://www.ussliberty.com Find reports of survivors at http://www.ussliberty.org/jim/ussliberty/voices.htm I was Liberty's OOD when the attack started. Jim [Ennes] +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ .. most of what I have to say and much of what my shipmates say is in the web site or in my book. People can find the fact there. Others, such as the Weeks person, would quarrel endlessly even if we produced an Israeli who told us from personal experience that it was deliberate. In fact, we have done just that. We have found FOUR Israelis who have told us that. One was a pilot who called me from New York, another was an Israeli corporal (later major) who observed the attack from an Israeli war room, and the third was a Mossad officer who knows from friends that it was deliberate, and still another was an Israeli intelligence officer who told me that he knows for a fact from friends who were involved that the attack was deliberate. Of course, we don't need that kind of testimony. The very fact that they circled us thirteen times before firing, then claim they did not, and the fact that they continued to fire for another forty minutes after the torpedo explosion, but claim that they stopped firing immediately, along with other gaping holes in their story of what happened, all convince every man aboard the ship and a great many senior US officials that this attack was no accident. Unfortunately, certain diehard supporters of Israel will never admit the truth no matter what evidence can be shown, so after a while those discussions become pointless. These are not people who are interested in the facts; they only wish to engage us in endless debate and we have other things to do. I have had mail from a few of your readers, and the question most often asked is, "Why would Israel attack an American ship?" The answer is clear and simple. We were an intelligence ship. Clearly they were doing something that they did not want the US to know about, so they attack, and they did it with the confidence that their friends in the US Congress would never hold them accountable. THAT is more disgraceful than the simple fact that they attacked a friendly ship. One can understand why Israel might want to remove a foreign intelligence ship from its coast during wartime; one cannot understand why the US Congress would pretend that it was all a tragic accident, refusing even to question American eyewitness survivors. When people have questions, they can find most of the answer at http://www.ussliberty.com or in my book, Assault on the Liberty, which is available in any library or from the web site or specifically from http://www.halcyon.com/jim/ussliberty/jimsbook.htm jim [Ennes]
    19 Sep 2000 excellent site sam. i suggest you put it on a backup server somewhere else, as some zionist at geocities might "accidentally" delete your page. - S.Q.
    19 Sep 2000 there is no justice or peace in the world as long as the jews and their friends exisist on earth.
All people are inherently good and mean well. Governments and rulers corrupt everyone. Just like there are good Arabs and bad Arabs, there are also good and bad Jews. Sam

    12 Sep 2000 Dear Sam! Thank God you are back! I did not see you responding to the feedbacks so I started getting worried! Be safe my friend. Sherene
That is very sweet. Thank you Sherene. -- Sam

    1 Sep 2000 An excellent site. Keep on deluding yourself. As for Lebanon: our hearts are with the Maronites, the true Lebanese who created what was once the most prosperous country in the Middle East. Peace upon the SLA, men who were merely defending their country from Shi'ite, Syrian and Palestinian agression. Wherever the Palestinian Arabs have gone, they have wreaked havoc: Lebanon, Kuwait, Jordan...by the way, if you are an Arab American, why do you prefer living in the US (which is in the hands of a Jewish clique, in your words) to the Middle East? Why are the Arabs completely incapable of assessing their own mistakes? Why do you deny the obvious: that non-Muslims and non-Arabs are persecuted in the Arab-Muslim world (see: the Berbers of Kabyle, the Copts in Egypt, the Kurds in Syria, the Maronites in Lebanon). I don't care what Edward Said or Azmi Bishara say: I have seen how the Muslims of Bethlehem and Nazareth torment their fellow Arabs merely on account of their religion. Lighten up, Sam: Ha'aretz represents merely a tiny section ofIsraeli society. The rest of us have only one desire: to be left alone. Once the Arabs stop killing and persecuting each other, and have a long hard look at their own societies, peace will come. Once they stop persecuting each other, they will perhaps appreciate the value of democracy. Until that day comes (and may it come soon) we'll have to defend ourselves. Oh, as for AIPAC: if you live in the perfidious USA, you must be aware of the rules of democracy. You probably know that the Arabs and Muslims have their own PACS. The difference: they are too busy spouting libel and paranoia to do anything constructive. All the best, and may the Arabs see that we are their brothers and wish only to live in peace.
Read my response(s) below to several feedbacks displaying similar distortion and lack of understanding of the situation, like the one you submitted above.
    >As for Lebanon: our hearts are with the Maronites, the true Lebanese who >created what was once the most prosperous country in the Middle East.
Yup, and Israelis that collude with her enemies, at Israel's expense are "true Israelis"! The only reason you consider them "true Lebanese" is that SOME Maronite colluded with Israel to liquidate the Palestinians. They were also part of Israel's plan to control the southern part of Lebanon, perhaps annex it, and suck up the resources Israeli style. Menahim Begin was furious when he found out that the late Bashir Jemayel, a Maronite leader, was not the puppet he had hoped for, to enable Israel to freely control southern Lebanon and allowing Israeli products into Lebanon custom free. So he fell from "grace". Only those who slaved for Israel, at the expense of Lebanese interest, are the ones you consider "true" Lebanese. It is instructive to see how Israel has its "hearts with the Maronites" in the case of the South Lebanon Army, and how Israel dumped these in refugee camps, turned some of them back and is trying to get rid of the rest to Germany and other countries. The number of SLA chosing to return to Lebanon and face long jail terms, over staying in Israel, is also a telling sign of Israel treats her informants after their usefulness is exhausted. Man, to think after all the SLA did for Israel, especially putting their lives on the line for her. This should serve as a lesson to all others who side with an aggressor and with Israel especially.
    >Wherever the Palestinian Arabs have gone, they have wreaked havoc:
First, a correction: the word "gone" here should be replaced by "expelled to". Second, the problem was not really caused by the Palestinians, but by those who expelled and dumped them on other countries, with already burdened economy, to live in squalid refugee camps among sewers and rats. If I kick you and your family out of your house and force you to live in your neighbor's house and off his income and food, I would guess that you and your neighbor will likely develop problems. If some force expells tens of millions of Latin American into the US, against the US people's wish, then trouble will also likely emerge. This is natural. What adds insult to injury is that along the way some naive observer will blame the whole thing on the expelled victims, instead of those who forced their ill fate on them.
    >... the US (which is in the hands of a Jewish clique, in your words)
Where did you see mention of a US that's "in the hands of a Jewish clique"? I mentioned the influence of pro-Israel/Zionist individuals, but never have I/will I generalized/generalize to all Jews. After all, I owe an immense gratitude to such wonderful and God-sent Jews like Chomsky, Finkelstein, Shahak and other non-Zionists, from whom I learned a lot of the information I list on this site. These people deserve a monument for their courage in telling the truth against peer ostracization.
    >why do you prefer living in the US .... to the Middle East? Why are the >Arabs completely incapable of assessing their own mistakes? Why do you >deny the obvious: that non-Muslims and non-Arabs are persecuted in the >Arab-Muslim world (see: the Berbers of Kabyle, the Copts in Egypt, the Kurds >in Syria, the Maronites in Lebanon). I don\264t care what Edward Said or Azmi >Bishara say: I have seen how the Muslims of Bethlehem and Nazareth torment >their fellow Arabs merely on account of their religion.
I came to the US as a student. Then got used to economic comfort, and later freedom of speech, so I stayed. It wasn't because I was a Christian being persecuted because of my faith in a mostly Muslim country. None of my Christian friends and relatives would say they were ever discriminated against based on their faith where I came from. I am of course not saying that it doesn't happen. On the contrary. As you mentioned, Copts in Egypt are but one example. But, AGAIN AND AGAIN, how is that and other WELL-KNOWN ills of the Arab world related to the mission of this site, which is CLEARLY "The Case Against Israel"? That would be like countring anti-Apartheid activists by telling them "how come you are not criticizing the existence of corrupt dictatorships across Africa?" Just because I list what Israel has done to the Palestinians does not mean I have to mention that Arab countries are corrupt, or perhaps that Panda bear are getting closer to extinction. The ills of the Arab world are well known and are loudly trumpeted in our media, so why do I need to repeat that in a site dedicated for "the Case Against Israel"? PLEASE explain. Pointing at the ills of the Arab world is a smart smokescreen tactic by Israel's diplomats, intended to divert attention of the injustice Israel inflicted on the Palestinians/Arabs. (You, as a supporter of Israel, have swallowed it, it seems.) That argument might work when you call in a radio show where the host has no clue about the conflict and is merely parroting propaganda lines. In this feedback page, however, you won't get far with it.
    >Lighten up, Sam: Ha'aretz represents merely a tiny section ofIsraeli >society. The rest of us have only one desire: to be left alone. Once >the Arabs stop killing and persecuting each other, and have a long hard >look at their own societies, peace will come. Once they stop persecuting >each other, they will perhaps appreciate the value of democracy. Until that >day comes (and may it come soon) we'll have to defend ourselves.
I don't understand the link between the Ha'aretz "section of Israeli society" and "the rest of you" who only want to be left alone. While the Arabs might still be backward and might be "killing and persecuting each other" what they ask from Israel is a pretty legitimate, fair and a just request: mainly to correct the justice done to the Palestinians and other Arabs whose land Israel occupies. Basic and simple. Give justice to the Palestinians and Arabs (or just stop taking it away, like the land confiscation and house demolitions going on all the times) and then, if they continue on "threatening" Israel then we'll have a different talk. Also, please detail to me how correcting the ills of Arab societies would produce peace between the Arabs and Israel, when Israel continues to withold justice due Palestinians and Arabs?
    >Until that day comes (and may it come soon) we'll have to defend ourselves.
Did you say you "defend" yourselves? Perhaps like the muscular robber is gonna defend himself against the little weak human, whose house he stole and whose freedom he robbed. Interesting context for the otherwise positive word "defend".
    >All the best, and may the Arabs see that we are their brothers and wish only >to live in peace.
Have you ever thought that the Arabs have the same wish for Israelis? Aside from that, the Arabs will only see you as brothers when you start acting like ones. As an example, 81% of West Bank water is/has regularly been stolen by Israel, while Palestinian crops die, but settlers' swimming pools are filled with water. Do you HONESTLY see a sign of "brotherhood" in this situation? I didn't even address torture, endless confiscation of land, demolition of houses, curfews, exploitation of labor, expansion of settlements, etc, all of which have been going on for the past 52 years, and continue today. Here's a hint for you: give back the Palestinians their lands and freedoms, and none of the bullshit Apartheid-like patches of land in the west bank under the "peace" process. Allow Palestinian return (like you allow Jews) if they choose to and pay compensation for the horrible injustices done them by Israel for over 50 years. Then you can speak to Palestinians and Arabs about brotherhood.

    27 Aug 2000 GREAT WEBSITE!!!! i always thought of this idea but i could never ever write like this.. this is really good what you all have done here.. I would advice if possible please get your own domain name because this website is too good to be true. and at the same time if possible you can publish these articles as a book. May God reward you all for this site!!
    25 Aug 2000 your mama is fukening besh.i wont to funk your sister.hasan naserala big heshol israel stey for ever from rafi isrel [email protected] bay.you setopt arb
    25 Aug 2000 we givati from the israel army will kik ur ass!!! and kill all of u fuckenn arbbes. i hope one day i can see lebenon in flames. i am aprod givati solder. i killed one of u and i am wetting to kill agen!!! p.s i am soprised that u know inglesh or to riagt from aour short meetings i do know that u know how to DIE!!!
    23 Aug 2000 sam I read some of the feedbacks and you seem to put a lot of emphasis on justice and just peace, you seem to forget that israel won all wars by isrsel, I suggest you take a crash course in international relations and political science. The first thing you will find out is that justice, fairness and terms as above hardly exist. The name of the game is pragmatism. Even Arafat understood it. Look at Assad, he was not able to get the Golan in his lifetime. Not only did he lose it in 67, but failed to conquer it in 1973 after attacking on the Day of Atonement. Arab countries thought Israel was just a passing phenomenon like a fashion. However in 50 years, not only did they have to admit that Israel exists but also they have to reckon with it Look at Egypt they got everything but that was 20 years ago. Things change and in a few years, I am not sure the window of opportunities will still be there. Chaim > The name of the game is pragmatism.
Pragmatism is a nice-sounding word. However, when someone robs you of your house, kills part of your family, then asks you to be pragmatic (read: "let's forget what I did to you"), then such pragmatism, put forth by the victimizer, is clearly another avenue to manipulate justice -- a means to make the victim accept his (in this case continued) victimization. The issue for the Palestinians is different from other Arabs like Egypt and Syria. The Palestinian dispossession is the core of the conflict. Look at what Arafat is getting back for his "pragmatism": No return to 1967 lines, no refugee return, no E. Jerusalem, no removal of settlements, no control of West bank water, and the "state" that he will get will consist of patches of lands that are disconnected, surrounded by Israel (check out the final status map presented by Israel to Arafat in May, at www.fmep.org). Had he known before hand where his "pragmatism" would lead him and his people, I am sure he would reconsider. He must be biting his finger-nails now wishing he had listened to Assad's advice on being "non-pragmatic". In summary, the issue is pragmatism ONLY IN PART. However, there is a BASIC level of justice and freedom that you just can't accept going below. The fact is that the more the Arab compromised the higher Israel's demand have become. While Palestinians used to be asking for all of Palestine, today their asking for 22% only. A slave can't be "pragmatic" and accept the continuation of his slavery, for token "rights" as Arafat has done. Arafat's mistake, of course, is that he accepted Oslo at face value, believing the "good" intentions of Israel. Oslo, of course, wasn't clear on where things would lead as far as the refugees, settlement colonies, water control, borders, E. Jerusalem. So, for his foolish trust of Israel, he now is well set to accept the continuation of occupation under the guise of liberation -- "pragmatism" in your words. He thought that shaking hand with Israel meant that Israel now suddenly wants what's fair for the Palestinians. Arafat would have been smarter had he asked, like Asad, for the application of international law, pure and simple.
    >I suggest you take a crash course in international relations and political science.
Only if you promise to take a course in basic human rights. Sam

    22 Aug 2000 From: Bilal P This site is absolutely fantastic - its brilliantly put together and highly releant. What a wonderful resource it is. I want to promote it with an extra star rating on my site (www.patelscornershop.com). Can I do this please?
Please be my guest. Thank you for your compliments. Sam

    21 Aug 2000
Dear visitors: After receiving the feedback below from Mr Mike Weeks, and responding to it, I got in touch with several USS Liberty survivors. Their response, indicating their familiarity with Mr. Weeks' and his arguments, are posted above under Sep 19 heading.
    SAM - If the matter presented on the USS Liberty incident is any indication, I suspect that what is presented on other subjects should be very seriously questioned. It appears no attempt has been made to objectively look at the incident. It appears that there has been no attempt to double-check any material presented. Just using the Liberty intro as an example: Written: "The American ship bombed mercilessly for over an hour by Israeli war planes and torpedo boats" By what reliable source (please quote) is there any indication that the IDF "for over an hour" did the above with planes AND torpedo boats? How to explain away, rationally, the following statement signed by Liberty's skipper (as only one example) at 1503 (3:03PM): "1503: One MTB returned to ship and signalled, 'Do you need help.' Commanding officer directed that, 'negative' be sent in reply." If what was written was factual, how to explain that the Liberty wasn't sunk? Written: "during a cease-fire (June 8) in the six-day War of June 1967 right before capturing the Golan heights." What source (please quote) states that there was a cease-fire IN EFFECT at 2PM local between Israel and Egypt on June 8th as Liberty was operating within sight of El Arish? Written: "The result: 34 Marines dead and 171 wounded." It can be assumed that this is a simple typo, as it was not 34 Marines killed, but 31 naval officers and sailors, 2 Marines and one civilian. Written: "The survivors were never given a congressional hearing" What's not been kept in mind is that this incident took place back in 1967 - it would not have been the "norm" to have survivors testify before Congress in 1967. However, the Congress has conducted a series of investigations over the years on the subject, and what is claimed as the truth as represented by this web site, has not been shown to be accurate. The latest investigation was in 1991/92, conducted by the House Armed Services Sub-Committee on Investigations (chairman Mavroulas, (D-MA).) Written: "and were only honored away from cameras." Then how to explain, again as only one example, the PHOTO in Ennes' book which shows LTJG Lucas receiving the Silver Star by Captain McGonagle? Or the PHOTOS in various newspapers when Captain McGonagle was presented the Medal of Honor? What on earth is the source (please quote) for the above statement? Written: "The U.S. government under president Johnson, refused to investigate and accepted Israel's mistaken identity excuse instantaneously." How to explain "refused to investigate" when there have been multiple investigations by the USG, both when LBJ was president, and later? Such as the Congress, CIA, DOD and NSA. How to explain the lack of mentioning that it was the apology which was accepted "instantaneously?" The various investigations which followed, and which some undoubtedly used sources located in Israel, did not prove that the attack was made knowing the ship was American. It should be noted that there's no reference, or quote, from the book on the web page: "CONFIRM OR DENY: Informing the People on National Security", by Phil G. Goulding, which states on page 134: "As weeks and months passed, we gradually picked up informal bits and pieces from various sources in Israel. It was impossible to guarantee the accuracy of most of them, and the government could do nothing with them formally. One could conclude-and I did-that the attackers did not know they were killing Americans and had not acted with malice or deliberation. One could not prove it." Would that not present a more balanced picture of this tragic incident? Written: "The ship flew a clear American flag, identified itself as American to the Israelis," What is the source (please quote) which states "identified itself as American..." PRIOR to the attack? How to explain otherwise the statements of crewmen, under oath, that no such identification was made until AFTER the attack was over? How to explain the statements made by the re-interviewing of bridge personnel following the naval court of inquiry which has as it's last paragraph: "10. PRECISE TIME SEQUENCING CONTINUES MOST DIFFICULT AS APPARENT FROM ABOVE HOWEVER, C.O. AND THOMPSON ARE UNSHAKABLE IN CONVICTION IMPOSSIBLE READ PT'S LIGHT PRIOR ATTACK AND ON FACT THAT LIBERTY ALDIS LAMP NOT UNLIMBERED UNTIL AFTER TORPEDO HIT. I AM CONVINCED THESE MEN KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT." Written: "and was in international waters. U.S. planes from neighboring USS Saratoga were dispatched for help, but were later ordered back by Washington before reaching the USS Liberty." How to explain that even before Washington learned that the Israelis were involved, that the Commander, Sixth Fleet had already ordered the recall of the flights because he received that same message before it had reached Washington, as well as knowing Liberty was no longer under attack and was departing the area? To wit from the: "THE NATIONAL MILITARY COMMAND CENTER WASHINGTON, DC 1530 EDT 8 JUNE 1967 MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD OF PRELIMINARY INFORMATION SUBJECT: THE USS LIBERTY (ATGR-5) STRUCK BY TORPEDO ... 4. At 081045 EDT, [4:45PM local] a message was received from the USDAO in Tel Aviv stating that Israeli aircraft and motor torpedo boats had erroneously attacked a vessel in the Mediterranean Sea at 080800 EDT, ..." And from the Sixth Fleet: Z 081439Z JUN 67 [4:39PM 8 June local] FM COMSIXTHFLT ... A. USDAO TEL AVIV ISRAEL 081414Z JUNE 67 1. IN VIEW REF A AM RECALLING ALL SIXTHFLT A/C. 2. LIBERTY RPTS LIST CONTROLLABLE ??? ??E?? DESTRUCTIN [?] COMPLETED. ALSO 4 DEAD EXCESS OF 50 WOUNDED." This message was generated six minutes prior to Washington receiving the 4:14PM local message from Tel Aviv. And when did Sixth Fleet receive that message? It was: "Z 081414Z JUN 67 [4:14PM 8 June local] FM USDAO TEL AVIV ISRAEL TO COMSIXTHFLT ... TOR: 08/1428Z JUN 67" Time of receipt (TOR) by COMSIXTHFLT [4:28PM local], was some 17 minutes before it reached Washington. Whatever is the overall agenda for having such a one-sided presentation regarding the subject of the Middle East, by attempting to link it to the Liberty incident, it clearly shows that what is presented on the web site must be questioned regarding the intent towards an accurate presentation. In addition, credibility suffers greatly when the site is maintained by an unknown individual, or group of individuals. Any excuse given also places into question the credibility of the material presented. So saying, feel free to display my name if there is any response to the specifics of what is presented in this post. Mike Weeks
Thank you for writing. Really. Your account included interesting technical information and detail of how the "other side" views the issue. It has also pointed out some sloppiness in my summary of the affair, which I will work on correcting. That's because what I wrote there was strictly from memory. HOWEVER, the crux of the story --essentially taken from the survivors' account, high-ranking US officials, like Admiral Moorer and Sec Rusk and from various books and articles mentioned below by respectable authors-- STANDS. I urge you to not only seek those references but also to contact the Liberty crew members, for a more detailed account, if you haven't already. After all, they are THE main witnesses to this horrible event and they are the ones who back my claims above. Incidentally, on the same day I received your feedback, I received a message on my site from an ex-crew member of the Liberty (check it out below)! His name is John Gidusko and his email and webpage are [email protected] http://www.iag.net/~gidusko/liberty. I am sure he and other crew members would be glad to talk to you. Onto the claims you and I made.
    >Written: "The American ship bombed mercilessly for over an hour by Israeli war >planes and torpedo boats" > >By what reliable source (please quote) is there any indication that the IDF "for >over an hour" did the above with planes AND torpedo boats?
The survivors story, James Ennes and others, as well as key US officials', give all the appropriate detail on that. Also, see Neff, Green and a quick mention in Cockburn below. The above account is clear and as a result stands. In addition, see for example, Ennes's article in the Washington Report (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0596/9605028.htm).
    >How to explain away, rationally, the following statement signed by Liberty's >skipper (as only one example) at 1503 (3:03PM): > >"1503: One MTB returned to ship and signalled, 'Do you need help.' >Commanding officer directed that, 'negative' be sent in reply."
Yup, McGonangle did reject help, and also GAVE THE FINGER (see Neff) to an Israeli helicopter that offered further help later. Witnesses also said that McGonagle responded with a "go to hell" when initially offered help (see Lilienthal). I would react in the same way if someone tries to destroy my ship, kill all aboard, but then "offers help". Israel's offer of help was aimed at avoiding embarrassment, upon discovering their failure of erasing the evidence, as the ship didn't really sink nor the crew didn't all die. There were also a Russian offer of help that was turned down, by the way. James Akins, a career foreign service officer, served as U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia, writes: (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/1299/9912028.html ) "When the Israelis saw they were unable to sink the ship after more than two hours of intense attack, they offered support to the survivors, who refused it." If this particular matter is any indication, then (the sources of) YOUR account should be called into question, as they have clearly taken McGonagle's refusal for help out of context, to distort the issue.
    >If what was written was factual, how to explain that the Liberty wasn't sunk?
By a miracle! Attempts at sinking the ship and kill the crew by Israel were clear. Rockets, torpedo, napalm and others. What was left of the ship was sold as scrap metal. Those aboard the ship were able to contain the damage, it seems, enough to maintain the Liberty afloat, after Israel's MTBs also destroyed the lifeboats the Liberty crew lowered to abandon ship.
    >Written: "during a cease-fire (June 8) in the six-day War of June 1967 right >before capturing the Golan heights." > >What source (please quote) states that there was a cease-fire IN EFFECT at 2PM >local between Israel and Egypt on June 8th as Liberty was operating within sight >of El Arish?
Israel attributed its initial refusal to accept cease-fire, pushed for by the US and the UN, to other Arab countries' similar refusal. But when they all accepted Israel was left no excuse. Then it showed its true intention by conquering the Golan. But, I do understand your technicality pointing to the "IN EFFECT" nature of the cease-fire, and will mention that in the account.
    >Written: "The result: 34 Marines dead and 171 wounded." > >It can be assumed that this is a simple typo, as it was not 34 Marines killed, >but 31 naval officers and sailors, 2 Marines and one civilian.
A sloppiness on my part. And to be REALLY specific one has to count Ship Officers, Chief Petty Officers, Petty officers, Seaman, Marines, and Civilians, to use the ship's roster designation (http://www.ussliberty.org/jim/ussliberty/roster.txt)
    >Written: "The survivors were never given a congressional hearing" > >What's not been kept in mind is that this incident took place back in 1967 - it >would not have been the "norm" to have survivors testify before Congress in >1967. However, the Congress has conducted a series of investigations over the >years on the subject, and what is claimed as the truth as represented by this >web site, has not been shown to be accurate. The latest investigation was in >1991/92, conducted by the House Armed Services Sub-Committee on Investigations >(chairman Mavroulas, (D-MA).)
You must be referring to the lip-service and minor inquiries that Congress conducted. There was never a FULL investigation. Whether it is the norm or not, the survivors are the prime witnesses to the event, besides the Israeli pilots -- two of whom, it was leaked out, might have been American citizens! Dismissing their testimony is telling, on your part and the US government's. According to ship CO McGonagle (http://www.ussliberty.org/jim/ussliberty/mcg2prez.txt) in a letter to President Clinton: "This is the only US Navy ship attacked by a foreign nation, involving a large loss of life and so many personnel injured that has never been accorded a full Congressional hearing." Syndicated columnist Charley Reese wrote (http://www.ussliberty.org/jim/ussliberty/reese.htm) "A Navy court of inquiry was a whitewash--so bad, in fact, that a Navy legal officer in Washington refused to endorse it." Survivor Ennes: (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0689/8906016.htm) "The USS Liberty remains the only major maritime disaster in all American history that has not been investigated by Congress." "Sen. John McCain (D-AZ) also assigned a staff member to inquire into the circumstances of the attack. Months later McCain advises that the inquiry is progressing slowly and that no results can be expected soon. No survivors have been queried. As a former Navy pilot and a former POW, Sen. McCain should have a special interest in this matter. It was McCain's father, Admiral John McCain, who convened the original Navy Court of Inquiry. Unfortunately, follow-up letters to McCain's office elicit no signs of progress. His "inquiry" seems little more than a diplomatic delaying tactic. " Ennes: (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0689/8906016.htm) "Members of Congress continue to give lip service to the need for a proper inquiry into the attack, while failing to follow up with any action. " Furthermore, (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0596/9605028.htm) "More important are the war crimes discussed by [US Navy Commander Walter] Jacobsen. These things should have been investigated in 1967. Yet U.S. officials have ignored the offenses for 29 years, refusing to investigate or even to acknowledge them" And more later from Ennes (http://www.ussliberty.org/jim/ussliberty/submarine.txt) "In fact, the Israeli assault on the Liberty remains the only major maritime event in American history that has not been investigated by the Congress. For comparison, the U.S. committed more than 300 people and seven months to investigating the uncontested single hit by an Iraqi missile on USS Stark in the Arabian Gulf. Yet, even though 250 survivors of the Liberty say Israel is lying about the 75-minute attack on their ship, no member of Congress since Adlai Stevenson II has shown the slightest interest in finding the truth. When pressed, members of Congress generally tell their constituents -- as they have since 1967 -- that an investigation would be impossible because too much time has passed, and because Israel could not be compelled to testify." According to Admiral Thomas Moorer, Chief of Naval Operations and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/052785/850527001.html): "While the Congress did have a subcommittee make a limited investigation, there was never a formal congressional hearing such as occurred in the case of the USS Pueblo, for instance. "
    >Written: "and were only honored away from cameras." > >Then how to explain, again as only one example, the PHOTO in Ennes' book which >shows LTJG Lucas receiving the Silver Star by Captain McGonagle? Or the PHOTOS >in various newspapers when Captain McGonagle was presented the Medal of Honor? > >What on earth is the source (please quote) for the above statement?
According to Gene Kirk, a USS Liberty survivor, and C. Patrick Quinlan, a retired U.S. foreign service officer (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/1292/9212064.html) "Johnson ordered the Liberty crew separated and silenced, on pain of dismissal from the Navy. Captain McGonagle was awarded his Congressional Medal of Honor at an obscure location, while on the same day Johnson honored a Vietnam War hero in the White House." Columnist Reese continues: (http://www.ussliberty.org/jim/ussliberty/reese.htm) "A unit citation, issued in 1967, was never given to the crew until years later, and then in an unpublicized ceremony. The commanding officer was also belatedly given the Congressional Medal of Honor--quietly." The cameras I was referring to were MAINSTREAM cameras, as befits this major offense on an American ship, by an "ally". That it is almost a RARITY that one encounters an American, military or not, who has heard about the USS Liberty bombing --let alone the survivors' version-- is a testament to that.
    >Written: "The U.S. government under president Johnson, refused to investigate >and accepted Israel's mistaken identity excuse instantaneously." > >How to explain "refused to investigate" when there have been multiple >investigations by the USG, both when LBJ was president, and later? Such as the >Congress, CIA, DOD and NSA. How to explain the lack of mentioning that it was >the apology which was accepted "instantaneously?" The various investigations >which followed, and which some undoubtedly used sources located in Israel, did >not prove that the attack was made knowing the ship was American.
Most, if not all of these "investigation" were flawed, since they were based on premise that the attack was an "accident" (see Green). Also, from an report "Remember the Maine Liberty!" by historian, researcher and an author of a book on the Liberty John Borne (http://www.ussliberty.org/jim/ussliberty/link.txt) "Yet the U.S. Government accepted the Israeli excuse instantly." From Findley's Deliberate Deceptions, p.41 : On Nov 6, 1991 columnists Rowland Evans and Robert Novak (Washington Post) discovered that the U.S. embassy in Beirut had intercepted Israeli radio traffic in which an Israeli pilot reported: "It's an American ship." The Israeli command ignored the report and ordered the pilot to press his attack. The report was confirmed by Dwight Porter, who was the American ambassador to Lebanon at the time. James Akins comments (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/1299/9912028.html) "The columnists [Evans & Novak] got further confirmation from an American-born Israeli major, Seth Mintz, who was in the war room in Tel Aviv at the time of the attack. He is quoted as saying, `Everyone felt it was an American ship and that it was the Liberty...there were comments about the markings, about the flag. Everyone in that room was convinced that it was an American ship.' Mintz told Evans and Novak that `The Israelis were guilty of an outrage.' The American suppression of the truth is surely an equal outrage. There have also been reports, but never confirmed on the record, that at least one of the attacking pilots was an American citizen. "
    >It should be noted that there's no reference, or quote, from the book on the web >page: "CONFIRM OR DENY: Informing the People on National Security", by Phil G. >Goulding, which states on page 134: "As weeks and months passed, we gradually >picked up informal bits and pieces from various sources in Israel. It was >impossible to guarantee the accuracy of most of them, and the government could >do nothing with them formally. One could conclude-and I did-that the attackers >did not know they were killing Americans and had not acted with malice or >deliberation. One could not prove it." > >Would that not present a more balanced picture of this tragic incident? > >Written: "The ship flew a clear American flag, identified itself as American to >the Israelis,"
There are endless mentions of the ship's CLEARLY hoisting a flag, made visible by a light breeze, in Ennes's, Neff's, Hirsh's, Cockburn's, Reese, Akins, Moorer, Maverick, not to mention the survivors. Also, the name/designation of the ship written in giant letters on the stern. These should have been easily visible to the Israelis, since the Liberty crew could see the Israeli pilots in their cockpit with binoculars as well as count their rockets. After the initial bombardment the flag seems to have been destroyed. So it was replaced by a larger 8x12 feet one. Furthermore, Israelis aren't so dumb to not recognize an American ship after at least several hours of reconnaissance, with ship designation, flag, etc., clear. Admiral Moorer continues (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/052785/850527001.html): "Israel continues to insist that the attack was a case of mistaken identity. However, this claim simply does not hold water. I personally have spent thousands of hours in peace and war searching for and identifying ships on the high seas. Based on this experience, I am certain that a highly trained military force such as the Israelis possess could not have made such a tragic error of misidentification. As a matter of fact, in clear visibility this unique ship was flying a very large, eight foot American flag. Furthermore, Israeli planes circled the ship beforehand and then proceeded to attack her over an extended period of time. There is simply no way that the Israeli pilots and torpedo boat crews could have concluded that it was anything other than a U.S. ship." B U T ... at least a day before the Liberty was attacked (sometimes on June 7, 1967), "the NSA learned, from an intelligence report emanating from the Office of the US Defense Attache in Tel Aviv, that ISRAEL WAS PLANNING TO ATTACK THE LIBERTY IF HER COURSE WAS NOT CHANGED." (see Green, p.215) (my emphasis). Representative Robert L.F. Sikes ... recalls that a representative of the CIA testified to the working group that the frantic efforts by the NSA and the JCS to move the ship on the evening of June 7 were prompted by an intelligence report from the Office of the US Defense Attache in Tel Aviv... that the IDF planned to attack the Liberty if she continued to operate in Israeli coastal water" (see Green, p.239). In other words, the Israelis KNEW of the Liberty's presence! Need there be more said? A more realistic image is that the Liberty had the ability to break codes and find out what the Israelis were up to, like conquering the Golan, with the hope of avoiding American pressure to refrain. The Liberty would have also found out that the Israelis, after breaking the Arabs' codes, made up false report to Jordan, and made them look like they were coming from Egypt, to inform them (falsely) that Egypt was achieving victories, and that the Jordanians should shift their force to certain locations to help (so Israel can create appropriate situations to allow easy conquest of the West Bank).
    >What is the source (please quote) which states "identified itself as >American..." PRIOR to the attack? How to explain otherwise the statements of >crewmen, under oath, that no such identification was made until AFTER the attack >was over? How to explain the statements made by the re-interviewing of bridge >personnel following the naval court of inquiry which has as it's last paragraph: >"10. PRECISE TIME SEQUENCING CONTINUES MOST DIFFICULT AS APPARENT FROM ABOVE >HOWEVER, C.O. AND THOMPSON ARE UNSHAKABLE IN CONVICTION IMPOSSIBLE READ PT'S >LIGHT PRIOR ATTACK AND ON FACT THAT LIBERTY ALDIS LAMP NOT UNLIMBERED UNTIL >AFTER TORPEDO HIT. I AM CONVINCED THESE MEN KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT."
Ennes write: (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/123085/851230004.html) "Salans' report, which ran to five single-spaced pages, rejected in turn each key element of the Israeli excuse: Tracked at 30 knots? (Impossible. The ship never exceeded 5 knots.) Identified only once and then forgotten? (False. The ship was reconnoitered eight times in daylight.) Erased from the Israeli chart? (Unlikely.) Israeli forces circled before attacking but could find no flag? (Not so.) THE LIBERTY REFUSED TO IDENTIFY HERSELF? (FALSE.) Mistaken for an Egyptian freighter? (Unlikely.) " (My Emphasis) Ennes writes later (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0596/9605028.htm) "... we DID fly a flag. We DID identify ourselves. We WERE in international waters. They did NOT stop firing after seeing our flag as they claim, but continued to fire for another 40 minutes. The attack was not brief or accidental as Israel claims. We did not "attempt to hide" or escape when detected, as Israel has charged. These things are easy to prove." (Emphasis in original) James Akins writes: (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/1299/9912028.html ) "On June 5, when Israel attacked Egypt and destroyed most of its air force, the Liberty was already in the region. Commander William McGonagle of the Liberty immediately asked Vice Admiral Martin at the Sixth Fleet headquarters to send a destroyer to accompany the Liberty and serve as its armed escort and an auxiliary communications center. "The following day, June 6, Admiral Martin replied: `LIBERTY IS A CLEARLY MARKED UNITED STATES SHIP IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS, NOT A PARTICIPANT IN THE CONFLICT AND NOT A REASONABLE SUBJECT FOR ATTACK BY ANY NATION. REQUEST DENIED.'"
    >Written: "and was in international waters. U.S. planes from neighboring USS >Saratoga were dispatched for help, but were later ordered back by Washington >before reaching the USS Liberty." > >How to explain that even before Washington learned that the Israelis were >involved, that the Commander, Sixth Fleet had already ordered the recall of the >flights because he received that same message before it had reached Washington, >as well as knowing Liberty was no longer under attack and was departing the >area?
The first dispatch for help, right after the initial Israeli assault, was reflexive (see Green) and was called back, (by Washington/RADM Geis). I haven't seen any real explanation of why they were called back the first time. However, Johnson's apparent interest in covering up the event is telling. Aside from that here are some comments: James Akins (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/1299/9912028.html) continues: "Shortly after the word of the attack and the 12 planes dispatched to support it reached Washington, Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara personally got on the circuit and said, `Tell Sixth Fleet to get those aircraft back immediately.'" Ennes: (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0596/9605028.htm ) "When the Liberty was attacked, Captain Joseph Tully in the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga received the ship's call for help and immediately sent jet aircraft to her assistance. Tully's jets were recalled almost immediately by orders from Washington." Liberty ex-crew member John Gidusko says: (http://www.iag.net/~gidusko/liberty/) "The defenseless LIBERTY radioed for help. Two aircraft carriers in the Med responded by launching fighter aircraft. Unbelievably, they were recalled by the White House. RADM Geis, then commanding the carriers in the Sixth Fleet, called Washington personally to confirm the order. SecDef McNamara came on the line, then President Johnson. Johnson indicated to Geis that the aircraft were to be returned, that he would not have his allies embarrassed, and that he didn't care who was killed or what was done to the ship. Geis, like any good sailor, recalled the aircraft."
    >Whatever is the overall agenda for having such a one-sided presentation >regarding the subject of the Middle East, by attempting to link it to the >Liberty incident, it clearly shows that what is presented on the web site must >be questioned regarding the intent towards an accurate presentation.
Perhaps it is your agenda and claim to "objectivity" that is called into question when you seem to have dismissed the majority of the overwhelming testimony by the survivors -- the main witnesses-victims -- incriminating Israel. A reminder: Presenting "the case against Israel", be it against Palestinians or anyone, happens to be THE MISSION of this site. The Liberty affair fits snugly in this mission, and the cover-up that followed tell something about the inflated influence of pro-Israel groups on US Middle East policies and perhaps a collusion between the governments of US and Israel -- at the expense of US lives. The one-sidedness of this site is intended to balance a vast gap left by our politicians and media, from CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, etc. Not to mention that the one-sidedness of this site is proudly in favor of the victims, and that Israel's aggression and expulsion of the Palestinians is the root of the Middle East conflict. In the case of the Liberty, the survivors' story was a deja vu in the endlessly-long history of Israel's belligerence and lies against anyone that stands in its path of lust for land and resources. Therefore, I naturally chose to believe the survivors' story --the main witnesses, mind you-- as did many other respectable authors, high ranking officers, magazines, etc, over Israel's account. Not to mention that their story, endorsed by some US officials, is highly more credible and and way more consistent than Israel's. Thus, "the account of the attack given by the Liberty men is the correct and truthful one" and that the attack "was deliberate and that all available evidence points to this conclusion", as concluded researcher John Borne according to a Phoenix Gazette Editorial by Mark Genrich (http://www.ussliberty.org/jim/ussliberty/gaz0696.txt)
    >In addition, credibility suffers greatly when the site is maintained by an >unknown individual, or group of individuals. Any excuse given also places into >question the credibility of the material presented. So saying, feel free to >display my name if there is any response to the specifics of what is presented >in this post. > >Mike Weeks
Regarding the Credibility of this site: I would estimate that easily more than 99% of the material included in this site is not written by me (except the feedback page). I give clear references to the highly credible and authoritative sources of the material herein. I provide links whenever available. So, if you or anyone would like to confirm/refute the authenticity of the info presented here, then by all means (try to) do so. Just follow the references and compare them to the originals. Then, the challenge (for you) is to prove that some report somewhere here were made up and attributed to the author/source/paper/magazine, etc. So far, two years after creating this site, NO ONE has challenged the authenticity of ANY of the articles and essays I included. That is because I post the material exactly as I find it at the source, with the exception of the title in rare cases. Finally, if you are truly interested in finding details of the Liberty event, you should really be talking to the witnesses-survivors. You can locate them via Ennes's website at http://www.ussliberty.org/jim/ussliberty/welcome.html which has, incidentally, excellent materials on the Liberty, including references, articles, and statements by both sides regarding this incident -- or massacre, as the survivors call it. Not to mention that the survivors are the main source for the info listed on my site. Good Luck Sam References: Liberty survivor James Ennes's website: http://www.ussliberty.org/jim/ussliberty/welcome.html. Please also consult the following important references: - Assault on the Liberty by James Ennes, `79 (Very detailed account) - Taking Sides by Stephen Green `84 (Detailed account) - Warriors for Jerusalem by Donald Neff, `87 (Detailed account) - The Zionist Connection by Alfred Lilienthal, `78, `82. (Detailed account) - Deliberate Deceptions, by Paul Findley 1996 (one page account) - The Samson Option by Seymour Hirsh `91 (passing mention) - Dangerous Liaison by A & L Cockburn. `91 (passing mention) - A letter to President Clinton from liberty CO William McGonagle (10/24/1998) http://www.ussliberty.org/jim/ussliberty/mcg2prez.txt - "Victims of 1967 Attack Honored, Israeli Motives Still Uninvestigated" by James Ennes http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0591/9105022.htm - http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0596/9605028.htm Did Israel's Armed Forces Commit One War Crim to Hide Another? by James Ennes - The Liberty Cover-Up by syndicated columnist Charley Reese (http://www.ussliberty.org/jim/ussliberty/reese.htm - Article by Rowland Evans and Robert Novak (Washington Post?) 11/06/1991 - http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/1299/9912028.html ) "The Israeli Attack on the USS Liberty, June 8, 1967, And the 32-Year Cover-up That Has Followed" by James Akins, - http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/052785/850527001.html "USS Liberty: Questions Persist" by Admiral Thomas Moorer - "USS Liberty: Periscope Photography May Finally Reveal Truth" Washington Report June/July 1997) http://www.ussliberty.org/jim/ussliberty/submarine.txt - Link article by John Borne "Remember the Maine Liberty!" http://www.ussliberty.org/jim/ussliberty/link.txt

    21 Aug 2000 An outstanding page, Sam! Of course, I admit I am biased. I am an ex-crew member of the USS Liberty, however I was not on the ship when it was attacked. I was transferred just 5 weeks prior to the attack and was relieved by LT Jim Ennes, who wrote the book "Assault on the Liberty." Every crew members knows, without a doubt, that Israel attacked the ship knowing full well that it was an American ship. Their torpedo boats threw five torpedos at the Liberty, one hit, and as the crew was preparing to abandon ship, the small boats were shooting up the inflated life rafts as they were being put in the water, further, shooting at the American sailors on deck as they attempted to help the wounded. The boats pulled one life raft from the water, clearly marked, "USS LIBERTY" just before returning to their base. American sailors were told to shut up about the incident under threat of court-martial, and we waited for an investigation. We are still waiting, congress will not touch it, (although they had no similar reluctance in the USS Pueblo and Stark incidents and every other incident of its kind.) Keep up the good work. I was led to the page by subscribing to TRACERLOCK, who I had searching for pages containing USS LIBERTY. I, too, have put up a web page regarding the incident -- http://www.iag.net/~gidusko/liberty -- and you may link to it if you like. You may also include my name and email address in your feedback page if you like. Thanks much! John Gidusko, LT USN (ret) email: [email protected]
Thank you dear sir for writing and for your nice words of compliments. I examined your site and will immediately include a link under the Liberty section. Sam

    19 Aug 2000 Well, let me start by saying that, and this may suprise you, your did not impress me. Yes, you have (or seem to have done, as I have not verified about 90% of your sources) a large amount of reaserch, you are still stuck on several facts. I noticed your large amounts of quotes from past israeli leaders, written after their terms were served. This is primary evidance, but even as primary evidance, things look very different when you are 'running the show' and when you look back at it! I can promise you that, at the time, things looked much more dire to the locals and even the "imperialistic" government of Israel. I am an Historian (17 years old, but i've done my share of reaserch, especially into Israel). I have read how you have criticized the "IDF" for being terrorists, called the Israelis "expansionists" and even rallied support from many who wrote feedback but let me clarify a few things. "Palestine" was NEVER EVER a sovereign state, it was promised to both the Israelis and the Arabs (To Israel under the British mandate of 1917). Also, the Israelites originally occupied The Kingdom of Israel (after a war with the "phlistines", now thought by many to be palestinians, even though that is, as you say "a myth") I have seen several remarks made, where you claim it's not israelis lands, and that it was forced off arabs. I can claim the opposite, that it was TAKEN by the Babylonians (who lived where iraq & transjordan is now) after the Israelis lost a rebellion to them. I can claim,Post WWII, Israelis "recaptured" their land after 2,000 years of occupation, just as you (And 1,000's of others of done with palestinians), but I do not because I accept the past as conditions and decisions made back then were not the best, but we must today deal with it. Let me highlight todays problems, which are very simple: Israel NEEDS peace in order to continue it's amazingally rich and prosperous economy (mainly in the high-tech sector), aswell as to make life better This is why there is even a peace process. I know you will manipulate the following sentance, as you did with many others I have seen (in taking them out of context, not as in changing them directly), but Israel at the moment does not NEED peace, it's "murderous" army can handle all arab uprisings, currently (before the lebanon withdrawal) they could have leveled the whole of Lebanon. They have enough weapons pointed at all the arab capitals to destroy the arab world yet they do not! what you (and many fellow arabs) claim to be Ehud Baraks "red lines" are nothing more than your inability to give in to your own sense of pride, and you use this in order to "claim" jerusalem. How do you justify your claim? The "Golden dome" is probably the center of all these troubles, well, (we) can claim the territory as the land of the old temple, which existed long before the dome. You fail to acknolage todays situation, and instead, try to use past conditions to get back what was lost in wars you started. You have also failed to highlight the USSR's invovlement in this old matter. Infact, there is soo much you have failed to (or purposefully not) hightlight so much that I will first end this "Feedback" (of which there is need for much more) and first read your reply before I move onto more "true" facts, instead of misinterpretations, and what appears to me as vein attempts to prove a point by manipulating facts. I look forward to your responce (hoping it will be less one sided than either your homepage, and perhaps one or two parts of this email) I would also like to remind you that there is NO "both sides", thats an idea which doesn't exist practically in this world, which is why your attempts will fail. >Well, let me start by saying that, and this may suprise you, >your did not impress me.
No surprise at all. For some reason I don't seem to have impressed most of the (blindly) pro-Israel visitors.
    >"Palestine" was NEVER EVER a sovereign state
So what? That shameful "explanation" is one of the endless legalities pro-Israel individuals invoke to deny the basic rights of the indigenous Palestinian population, including denying their existence. I bet you it was once used against the American Indians and Australia's aboriginal. Again, SO WHAT?
    >it was promised to both the Israelis and the Arabs (To Israel >under the British mandate of 1917).
By whom was it "promised"? The RIGHTFUL owners of the land, by any chance? Certainly the British weren't. In 1917 Jews were 10% of the population. Most of the rest of world Jewry didn't care about Zionism -- or a homeland for Jews in Palestine. Nonetheless, if you were to read Balfour's short declaration/promise to the Jews, you would note that it called for, in addition to protecting the rights of non-Jews, the establishment of A HOME FOR JEWS in Palestine, NOT Palestine as a Jewish state with Jews constituting majority, nor did it sanction other conquests and horrors committed by Israel following 1948.
    >Let me highlight todays problems, which are very simple: >Israel NEEDS peace in order to continue it's amazingally rich >and prosperous economy
Let's rewrite this statement, stripping it of propaganda, to better depict reality: Israel needs the Palestinian to just forget/forgive their past dispossession by Israel, which actually continues today, so it (Israel) can enjoy its loot of Palestinian property that it stole, "in order to continue it's amazingly rich and prosperous economy" largely sustained by endless American aid and protection from international law, and exploitation of Palestinian labor and markets.
    >You fail to acknolage todays situation, and instead, try to use >past conditions to get back what was lost in wars you started.
Have you first truly succeeded in acknowleding the past, that pretty much created "today's situation", before asking me to acknowldge the latter? Now, I take your house and kick you and your family out and live in it, while locking you in the barn behind barbed wire. Then, I tell you: you have to "acknowledge today's situation", i.e., accept that your house is now mine. But as a "historian" you should definitely understand the importance of past 100-years history that lead to "today's situation" as a means to resolve the problem. (Please spare me the thousands-years-old history of philistines and the implicit equating of then Israel with today's. After all, one may then argue that Israel should clear out the land for THE rightful owner -- the Canaanites who were there before the Israelites. The Canaanite example is given only to show you how ridiculous the "legitimacy by ancient connection" argument. Am not saying Jews don't have any connection; just that they can use that as an absolute right to politically control -- by force-- the holy land). Second: What wars did "we" start besides 1973? Please enlighten me? In the 1973 war, Syria tried to regain its lost land back, and Egypt tried to make a statement by crossing the Suez Canal and occupying a strip East of the Canal. There were no threat to Israel's existence, by admission of its leaders. The second war that is questionable on who started it is the 1948 one. But if you look at history then the Arab "attack" of May 15 was more of an intervention in the on-going ethnic cleansing by Israel. Recent revelation also showed that there were no threat to Israel's existence either. If you think otherwise, then you should seriously question the sources you are using for your historian-ship. Even if the Arabs had started, say the 1967 war (they didn't, of course), then Israel had no right under international law and the Geneva conventions not to mention human rights laws and basic morals, to move its civilian population into the land it conquered, also called colonization. For example, because Iraq attacked Kuwait, Kuwait doesn't now have the right to expel Iraqis from Iraq, possess their homes, demolish many of the rest, then transfer Kuwaitis population into Iraq, and make the remaining Iraqis live under a horrible slavery-like occupation.
    >I noticed your large amounts of quotes from past israeli >leaders, written after their terms were served. This is >primary evidance, but even as primary evidance, things look >very different when you are 'running the show' and when you >look back at it!
The Israeli leaders' statements serve as one of many proofs, not the primary evidence, to Israel's real intentions. Israel's actions, before and after any particular event, are a better material proof.
    >I know you will manipulate the following sentance, as you did >with many others I have seen (in taking them out of context, >not as in changing them directly)
The "manipulation" you are referring to might be the removal of propaganda contents of some of the feedback I receive, which, naturally, causes pain to people living under the constant effect of myths-as-facts and are thus suffering from denial. If you don't want your statements manipulated, then be honest with yourself and write nothing but pure truth. Also, please detail to me how I take things out of context, e.g., by giving examples and explaining how I do it. Of course, you have to make sure before you cite anything, that the context I supposedly take things out of is a context relevant to the issue discussed.
    >Israel at the moment does not NEED peace, it's "murderous" army can handle all >arab uprisings, currently (before the >lebanon withdrawal) they could have >leveled the whole of Lebanon. They have enough weapons pointed at all the arab >capitals to destroy the arab world yet they do not!
Israel was forced to pursue "peace", via the current "peace process", by Israel's main patron, the US. Remember Bush, Shamir, Baker, Madrid, etc? Besides, tame your (Israel's) arrogance before claiming to pursue honest peace.
    >what you (and many fellow arabs) claim to be Ehud Baraks "red lines" are >nothing more than your inability to give in to your own sense of pride,
Only if you consider asking for what's rightfully yours --and we're only asking for MINIMAL, not full, reparations-- to be the same as the "inability to give in to your own sense of pride". Finally, I strongly recommend that you read through the feedback page (again) slowly. You'll spare both you and I going through this over and over. But first you have to activate your compassion-for-others neurons and place yourself the Palestinian victims' shoes, whose victimization continues today, through inhumane home demolition, land confiscation, closure, expanding settlements, exploitation of Palestinian labor, and finally annulling international and human rights laws that have repeatedly condemned Israel, by the present "peace process". Sam

    15 Aug 2000 hello sam, yet again (i sent some feedback b4), i need to commend ur truly awesome site. i did, however, want to give a suggestion u might want to take into consideration. i think ur site shows israel as sucking up the resources of the united states mercilessly without reciprocating the transaction. but just like isreal has its dirty work done by the US, so too does the US get its dirty work done by israel. the US uses israel to do everything that it cannot do directly, like illegally dominating the middle east. the US has declared Manifest Destiny over the middle east. that in itself is so racist and sanctimonious! i may not be arab but i sympathize with the arabs who r being treated like the native americans...to be destroyed by some God given right of America's known as Manifest Destiny! i can kinda see why u didnt include this angle tho in ur web site. it could confuse a first-time reader a lot. still, u might consider adding it. ok, but watever...ur web site still is the best thing on the web. salaam, javad.
    11 Aug 2000 Why are you so afraid to put on your real name? If you really had the proof and guts to stand behind them, you would, but instead you hide like cowards and use false, limited, and highly questionable scholarships in addition to a slew of myths
Can you point me exactly to the whereabout of the "false, limited, and highly questionable scholarships" you found in this site? Most of the facts I listed in this site come from reputable, mainstream and Israeli press. So, the "false" research is not mine.
    >Why are you so afraid to put on your real name?
Sadly, many of those who support Israel blindly (i.e. right or wrong) happen to be powerful individuals with ample $$$, but most of all aren't used to hearing the truth about Israel. They have in the past used their power and money to silence and defame critics of Israel, instead of respond to their arguments like civilized individuals. The targets of blindly-pro-Israel entities, has especially been US policy makers, who don't support Israel all the way. Some of the best policy makers the US has ever known, lost their job just because they have modestly criticized Israel. Senator Fullbright comes to mind. For all I know, some of the people who have power over my pay check may happen to be blind supporters of Israel. Therefore, like anyone else, I would rather work on my campaign of showing the world the truth about Israel with minimal headaches and interruption from blindly-pro-Israel people who can't handle the truth. (Are you one of those?) Speaking of hiding one's name, you forgot to sign your letter to me! Sam

    5 Aug 2000 Sam, I am sorry but this is the best webpage by far. You are a brilliant person, and very articulate. I invite you to register on CNN's message board and participate if you have the time. CNN purposefully writes stories about how Palestinians are supposedly terrorists, and then they ask "Is Peace Possible", obviously not, the answer comes to mind, because the Palestinians are terrorists, right? The Jewish Participants kept nagging about how Jerusalem was not listed as part of Israel on the weather page, until CNN changed it! When will Americans wake up to this? Their Media is becoming an outright joke! The BBC and European media still have bias here and there, but all in all they are much better than Western Media! Baz
Thank you Baz. You're very kind. --Sam

    4 Aug 2000 Only one frase-"sa'yert e'goz" Any hezbollah terrorists try to hert israel will be extict. I will accept any comments.
    4 Aug 2000 Sam I read mission statement of your site and it was impressing, I've visited many sites that try to show Israel's dark side, but they end up doing more harm since they get too emotionally and personally involved, I've never seen any of that here and that's what make this site unique, it's all hard facts. Keep it up. Fadi
Thank you Fadi. --Sam

    2 Aug 2000 Name : Basil K. You my friend have the most amazing, informative, and well organised site. I love the mixture of quotes and articles. I also have to commend you for your excellent citations, your sources are great because most are from American and Israeli sources, authors, etc... I don't know how I found this website, but I love it, keep up the good work brother, people like you are the pride of the Arab World. If there's anything I can do to help, please email me, if I get any good articles from Good sources I can send them to you too. Salam, take care.
Thank you Basil for your very nice comments, and for your offer to help. By all means, if you find an article that you think I should include, please send it to me. Make sure to include the link where you found it. Sam

    1 Aug 2000 I am a lebanese citizen & i visited this site when my swiss and french cousins where at my place and they saw the destruction made by the israeli forces .and they are VERY ANGRY. But in their country, they praise your efforts to regain all lebanese territories. In fact it was a success. But they were asking to see in this website facts and figures about what YOU did to the israeli force. they want to feel strong coz' they think the israelis are the only strong country and that we r weak so plz put pictures about when u attacked the commandos and put the in pieces :-) Keep it up!
    31 Jul 2000 dear sam, this is the best web page i have ever seen. it is now my home page. i salute u. i am making a documentary that will soon be put up on the web and i was wondering if u minded me quoting ur responses to some of the idiotic comments on ur reader feedback section. i will of course include an "advertisement" of ur wonderful web page in it. pls continue to update ur web page and try keeping up with those that mysteriously (lol) move their documents so that ur links dont work no more. once again, i think u have a wonderful web page and the thing i like best is ur levelheaded, intelligent, and articulate responses to barbaric tirades made by some in ur reader feeback section. Assalam wa Alaycum, --javad.
Thank you sir for your encouragement and support. --Sam

    29 Jul 2000 Hi there I found your site by accident looking for Udi Adiv in the search bar of Explorer. As an anti-Zionist Jew I find it encouraging so far. I am particularly impressed by your mission statement. You sign off simply SAM. Are you an organisation or an individual? Anyway I've like what I've seen so far. Mark
Thanks! Hope you continue to like this site. --Sam

    24 Jul 2000 stop calling the idf a terrorist group. you attack, we retaliate. if someone else ends up getting hurt, its your fault for attacking us in the firstplace.
The best way to prove that the allegation "Arab attack, Israel retaliates" is a myth is to look at the chronology of events (not to mention the roots of the conflict). Let's pick some border, one that is fresh in our minds, say Lebanon and Israel. Israel violated Lebanon's airspace thousands of times. Now, can you count a 100 times when Hizbollah shelled across the border into Israel? It might be impossible actually, which tells you, before we even look at any chronology of attacks and retaliations. Your logic is that for each Lebanese attack there should be an Israeli retaliation, right? How come the ratio of Israeli actions against Lebanon is AT LEAST ten times more than a supposed Hizbollah shelling that started it? I can't figure it out! Now, let discuss some chronology. Since Israel's occupation of 10% of Lebanon (called the "Security Zone") in 1985, and up until 1992, the Israeli-Lebanese border was relatively calm. Then in 1992 Israel attacked --inside Lebanon-- a Hizbollah leader's car, killing him and his entire family. Israel's reason for the attack: it reserves the right to eliminate "terrorists" because they are likely to endanger her in the future. (If you find this logic acceptable, then you should not be bothered by the logic of those Palestinians, Lebanese, Syrians, etc, who love to see Israel destroyed. After all, Israel is really threatening their existence.) A similar scenario to the one described takes place every now and then. But the most popular scenario is when the Lebanese resistance Hizbollah attacks Israeli-allied forces INSIDE occupied S. Lebanon, as they have the RIGHT to do according to international law. Israel responds by bombing Lebanon, civilians, military, schools, ambulances, mosques, hospitals, anything, under the guise of bombing "suspected hizbollah hideouts" (note the word suspected). When, say a woman and her six children die, Israel says it's a mistake, and that she's sorry. Then she does it again. No action is taken by anyone in the world against Israel. It is only predictable that Hizbollah responds. ALMOST NEVER has Hizbollah shelled Israel without Israel first killing and wounding of Lebanese. Can you disprove that, perhaps by finding a Hizbollah shelling that was NOT preceded in the previous two days by an Israeli bloody action inside Lebanon. I shall await anxiously the result of your research, and I expect you to send me a feedback when you do, right? Israel has always employed the principal of "retaliating in advance" not to mention "an eye for 20 eyes", citing, absurdly, the imbalance of Israeli versus the entire Arab world population as justification, as though that's an argument. Informative articles about this whole issue that I recommend are the following by Hussein Ibish, James Ron (ex Israeli soldier) and Israel Shahak. More on the "Arab attack, Israel retaliates" myth is the case of the Golan Heights, where Israel provoked Syria repeatedly into shelling it. According to Dayan "at least 80%" of Syrian shelling of Israel was deliberately provoked by Israel to justify a later Israeli massive "retaliation". Bottom line, those who attack Israel are usually people who were dispossessed by or suffered severely because of her, and were not compensated for the injustice they suffered at her hands. Those are mainly refugees living close to the border in their miserable camps, who come back seeking revenge. Actually most of those who tried to cross the borders into Israel in the fifties were civilians, refugees trying just to go back to their homes, or collect their crops expropriated by Israel, (see Benny Morris's Israel's Border Wars). Little did they know that some Argentinian Jew now lives in their house and calls it "his". Israel usually kills all "infiltrators", often women and children. The number of those killed in the five years after the 1948-49 war, is estimated at 5,000 by Morris, if I remember. Israel's "lust for land" must stop for the conflict to end, and this way the IDF will not "be forced" to "retaliate" by those annoying refugees who never tire in asking for something they call their rights. Sam

    22 Jul 2000 You Arabs started this mess by trying to drive them from their land. You murdered, oppressed, and used every dirty trick possible to force the Jews out, now you want respect? Get real! You have also murdered innocent people from other lands, including the United States, for your evil purposes. NONE of you terrorists deserve to live in a free world. You are worse than animals and deserve to die for what you have done. Stop crying and realize free people will not always tolerate you. Only the harshest treatment by civilized people will put you out of business
Please detail to me how the Arabs started this mess. Is it possible that you still haven't heard what really went on in the first half of this century? In 1917 when Balfour issued his declaration there were 24,000 Jews in Palestine (10% of the pop). Thirty years later the number increased ~25 fold to 600,000 (30% of the pop) all via immigration against the will of the majority non-Jews. Worse yet, the new incomers, had a driving ideology behind their endless immigration: the establishment of a "Jewish state" that would exclude the majority non-Jews, on the land in which they (the Jews) owned only 7% in 1947. (So even in 1947 it wasn't "their [the Jews'] land", and only war could make it otherwise.) Can you imagine that population increase via endless immigration happening in the US, and American's reaction to it? The first time the Arab countries officially "attacked" in May of 1948 was after the Jews (as they were known then) began their ethnic cleansing of Palestinians -- "coincidentally" in line with what their ideology, Zionism, envisioned. The Arab countries were under tremendous pressure noting the influx of countless Palestinian refugees into their land fleeing Haganah, Irgun and Stern gang terrorism. THEN came the Arab INTERVENTION (not attack) -- which provided Israel with the pretext it was hungry for to justify expanding and then expelling. The war lasted about 10 months of which the Arabs were on the offensive for the first 3 weeks only, which shows how pathetic this "attack" was, compared to the "attempt at destroying Israel" version portrayed in Zionist text books. What could one expect when the Arab armies didn't total more than 17,000 disorganized, multiply-led, mostly palace guards, facing 60,000 Israelis with 30,000 more on reserve. That imbalance is hidden from you, and replaced by the irrelevant comparison of the total POPULATION of the Arab world then at 40 million, facing 600,000 Jews. Before May 48, HALF of the 1948 refugees were already expelled or terrorized into fleeing by the Jews, from Jaffa, Haifa, and others. Deir Yassin villagers weren't so lucky, however. Why did Isrepal not allow them to return in accordance with internationl AND human right laws, especially since if it didn't cause them to leave, as it officially states? The Palestinian actions you mention --which seems to me to be the only "defense" Israel has against its victims-- are REACTIONS of a weak, oppressed people to their dispossession, expulsion and massacres by their powerful tormentors and their supporters. Best Sam

    22 Jul 2000 al we want is peace, let's do it together!!!!!! adi, tel aviv.
That statement would better describe what a Palestinian might tell an Israeli. Your/Israeli government's "peace" conditions (sometimes called Barak's "four Nos" or his "five red lines"), happen to be BASED on continuing the injustice against the Palestinians. Lack of justice makes peace impossible. ONLY when "you" (Israel) recognize Israel's original sin, and show "real" interest in resolving it JUSTLY (return of refugees, withdrawing to June 4th, line, etc.) that you should extend your hand of peace to the Palestinians. If you agree, then you should've made that clear in the first place. Sam

    22 Jul 2000 I'm 16 years old from Israel and i want peace. I have no words to describe this site, i just want to cry. this website is better then all the nazi websites i found on the web. this is one of the letters i found in this site: "the only solution i can think of is to kill every jew muthafucka on the planet cos they are the lowest form of life in the universe.they should be tortured and killed in the slowest way possible.my shit is worth more than every jew muthafucka in the world.its a pity that world war 2 ended when it did cos it didnt give hitler enough time to finish what he started.fuck every jew and their mothers.fuck the peace deals.we need to rid the world of the disease known as judaism.only then will we have peace. keep up the excellent work with the site and please show this letter as i know a lot of people who feel the same as i do.ALLAHUAKBAR" I am a jew. I am a proud jew, i live in israel and i'm a proud israeli. Israel is the only light of the middle east surrounded by 10 dictaruric arab countries. your perpuse is to destroy israel, well let me tell you something mr. wise guy - u can continue dreaming. and i really don't look forward for your intresting response.
The anti-Jewish racist response you cite, has rightly angered you, as it did me. However, you seem to have totally ignored my response to it. Israel's belligerence against the Arabs and the denial of basic rights to the Palestinians, is surely not helping end anti-Semitism -- which is a contradictory concept to Zionism, Israel's founding ideology. Israel claims to speak for Jews across the world. Therefore, it is understandable --but not justifiable-- that people will associate between Israel (thus her actions) and the majority of world Jewry. Those who oppose Zionism and Israel's policies must speak out. First, the democracy you loud is exclusive to Jews, not to mention that the word "democracy" is instantly dwarfed by Israel's occupation and oppression of the Palestinians. Clearly the information presented in this site show that Israel is anything BUT a "light" of the Middle East, let alone the "only" one. Israel is the only country in the region founded on a grave original sin against an entire nation. The anti-Jewish/anti-Israel anger you find among Palestinians and others --which sadly translates into racism, sometimes-- is not really due to racism per se, but has its roots in Jewish dispossession of the Palestinians people. On the whole Jews were less oppressed in Arab countries than they were in Europe. Note how that changed of the establishment of Israel in 1948. Hating Israel (or "the Jews") and the desire to destroy it are the only thing a weak Palestinian can do as a reaction to his dispossession, torture, occupation, curfew, theft of water, etc by the regional super power that Israel is. In other words, your perceived (thanks to media propaganda) image of the Palestinians as people who just-want-to-destroy-Israel-for-the-fun-of-it, is actually a result of Israel's countless attempts at destroying the Palestinians as people. So before you can claim pride, as an Israeli, you must first set out to correct the original sin on which your identity as an Israeli is based. This truth is painful for Israelis (let alone the Palestinians) and thus would explain your not "look[ing] forward" to my response. Sam

    22 Jul 2000 Dear Kind Sir I do NOT recognise a country by the name of Israel. Occupied Palestine is a place where everyday, the native population are tortured, shot, jailed and evicted from the their houses, because of their religion. The IDF are the modern waffen-SS, they are racist and unjust. Hezbollah bomb a amry target, IDF bombs a pre-school. This kind of behavior is sickening. The IDF and "Israeli" politicans are merciless animals who can get away with anything, because they have their hands around the americans balls. As you stated the death ratio shows that this is a one way conflict, and Unless countries that have not been corruped by the Zionist New World Order Cartels, QUICKLY do something to stop these people, well all is lost for future generations, EVERYWHERE. The world must confront ZIONISM like it did NAZI'ism and CRUSH it and RIP its heart out. These people will be the downfall of the free world. Where else can u get away with killing at will?. In occuped Palesine Another Oppressed Native Person From New Zealand KIA KAHA(stay strong)to my Palestinian Brothers. The world will open its eyes. Till then Hang on!. Rangi
    17 Jul 2000 Dear honest brave man: May God bless you. Please do not forget to keep a back-up copy of all the material on this web site, in case some one tries to delete this geocities site. a Palestinian
Your kind words are appreciated, dear friend. Two back-ups are in a safe and sound place. Thanks for your concern. --Sam

    16 Jul 2000 Dear Sam, I was never interested in the politics of the Middle East, I was never concerned about the region, and I never comprehended what was occurring. Just like the majority, I thought that Israel was "Heaven on Earth". I need to thank the person who introduced me to this complicated issue, who never encouraged me to take sides but only to use my rationale based on the facts. He also introduced me to your site. He knows who he is because he is a regular visitor here. And thank you Sam for clarifying and articulating everything that needs to be clarified and articulated. Thank you for making everything so much easier to digest. I am sure that everyone, including those who condemn this site, is amazed by how resourceful, complete and accurate it is. I was wondering if you can give us an estimate of how much time you put into this page (let's say hours per week). Thank you very much, keep up the wonderful work. Alessia
Thank you Alessia for your kind words. As for your question on time spent on this site, the answer is that it varies greatly. But maintaining it is much less than the initial set-up, where now the task is searching/adding an article here and there, and responding to feedbacks from time to time. Regards, Sam

    11 Jul 2000 hello, I am very sad becasue it seem that people are fighting and dying for land. conflict of who did what, you did this and i didn't do that. There is complex socio-economic issues behind the fighting in the middle east but in the simplest contest of a child the conflict could be broken down in to this "this is mine, no it is mine". Israel is a treat to the Arab world becasue it represts a free modern world in the middle east that is very well off. This is strit contrest to the most of the middle east nations. However, israel is also in a war path to regain in thier minds their ancent birth right lands, by removing the living occupants. It is very funny as an outsider trying to understand this conflict, Both jewdiam nad islam believe in the same God, both believe they came from Shara and Abraham (like chritains, islam has its roots in jewdaims), so when they fight and kill each other, would break their ancentors hearts. After all the politics are gone, would it really matter ! whose living next to you, long as they are nice. In the end everyone will die and land will go back to the right full owner, GOD. Long as we live we borrow land from Him, how poor tents we have been. peace should be everybody's goal but in the end to achieve peace comprise is nessceary from both sides and silence those mad men who will bomb and kill children in buses. will God want people go to war and hate and distory his land with bombs? anyhow, you should check your site if you are really writting this with all the facts, that it is unbises and that no fault lyes with in arbic world and that jews are all up to that. i wish peace, i have not seen it in my life time. Please, as adults i would like to say to my kids, i have tried to all i could to give you peace in your life time. instead, i watch the world burn in hate and ingronce. life is a gift don't weasted on hate this message from kid for peace
It is nice to seek peace. True peace however, must be preceded by basic justice, otherwise, "peace" will be a disguised injustice, a "lack of conflict" repression, enforced by firepower and military might. To understand what justice involves, one must understand, first, what the conflict is about. To think only of vague, general "peace", without having spent the time to learn, and then address, the real issues, is a bit naive. The Middle East conflict is not just about two religions fighting. After all, Zionism, as are most Israelis, is a secular ideology. Religion is secondary. The conflict might involve some "complex socio-economic issues," BUT there is also a basic reason for the fighting -- namely, the injustice of uprooting of one people by another. PERIOD. By not addressing this core issue, in fact by deliberately diverting your attention, as an observer, from the real causes, the media is the reason you think that the conflict is about two religions fighting over land, or two immature guys shouting "this is mine, no it is mine".
    >Israel is a treat to the Arab world becasue it represts a free modern world >in the middle east that is very well off. This is strit contrest to the >most of the middle east nations.
That might be a factor, but it is a very minor one compared to, again, the real root cause I mentioned above. Pre-civil-war Lebanon is an example of a modern non-Muslim ARAB state, with relative freedom of press. Why wasn't it seen as a "threat"?
    >However, israel is also in a war path to regain in thier minds their >ancent birth right lands, by removing the living occupants.
As I mentioned, most Israelis are secular. What you say apply to the minority Zionist-religious and some secular. The basic thrust of Zionism was mainly to get a land for Jews, where they would be safe from persecution, (sounds nice, doesn't it?). It was NOT to regain ancient Israel per se. That was mostly a convenient argument used to further their "legitimacy" and sphere of support to some Zionist-religious Jews and to some fundamentalist Christian.
    >to achieve peace comprise is nessceary from both sides
Palestinians have already compromised beyond what's imaginable: 77% of what used to be mandate Palestine is now Israel, from which Palestinians were ethnically cleansed and 400 of their villages leveled. Negotiations today limited to the remaining 23% called the West Bank and Gaza. Even the water of WB is mostly --81%-- is stolen by Israel which helps settlers fill their pools, while Palestinians thirst and their crops die. This is like someone stealing your house, and now you are being asked to negotiate only over the garage, and which parts of it you can live in. And then, someone asks you to compromise even further: you have to be "realistic", they tell you, and you must "compromise" by letting go of parts of that garage. Palestinians have already endured half a century of occupation, and denial of basic human rights, and many refugees have lived all that time behind barbed wire, tearfully looking at their unreachable once-homes, as some Russian Jew comes in ("return" in Zionist/Israeli lingo) to lay claim to that home as "his". It is time for Israel to compromise, and it has to be a compromise on the major issues of refugees, settlements, water, Jerusalem. That is if it is sincerely interested in true peace, not a muscle-enforced one. Sadly, most of these issue fall under Barak's so-called red-lines or "NOs". So, peace is not anywhere near, I am afraid.
    >anyhow, you should check your site if you are really writting this with all the >facts, that it is unbises and that no fault lyes with in arbic world and that >jews are all up to that.
First, no one can claim that "no fault" lies with any side in any conflict. After all, both sides are human. One can, however, name an overall victim (Palestinians) and overall victimizer (Israel) for the Middle East conflict. Second, my site's one-sidedness --IN FAVOR OF THE UNDERDOG VICTIMS-- is openly stated: after all, presenting the Arab side IS its mission. In so doing, my aim is to balance the endless media one-sidedness for Israel. That pro-Israel propaganda flooding of our media outlet, actually, might be the reason behind your "shock" at my site. I notice hints of the effect of this propaganda on you when you refer to "those mad men who will bomb and kill children in buses", ie, Palestinian terrorists, but not the Israeli terrorism that PRECEDED/CAUSED it.
    >instead, i watch the world burn in hate and ingronce. life is a gift don't >weasted on hate
Your insinuation about a "hate-filled" site is a direct result of your unfamiliarity with the real issues. Speaking out while not understanding really what's going on, adds more insult to injury to the victims of the conflict. I encourage you to earnestly begin learning about this conflict in detail. This will enable you to understand the full requirements for true peace. Otherwise, you will continue to fall prey to propaganda traps. I can recommend all the books you want, and most of them were written by Jews. (First book might be Hirst's 1977 "Gun and Olive Branch", followed by Chomsky's 1983, 1999 "Fateful Triangle," then Palumbo's 1991 "Palestinian Catastrophe," then Finkelstein's 1995 "Image and reality". Of course there are more books that can fit anywhere in between, but you can start with these.)

    11 Jul 2000 THIS IS FULL WITH LIES. WE ARE IN ISRAEL SUFFERED FROM YOUR TERRORISM (SHAIDS)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    11 Jul 2000 Hi sam, From what I understood you live in the US. You live in much safer place then Israel. I live in a dangerous place. for example 5 years ago when one of the palestinian trrorists group (the one you inecent) "Hammas" bombed a bomb in big shoping mall in Tel-Aviv("Dizingof Center") I was 200 meters (600 feet) from the bomb, I so the bodies and the horror. 3 years ago a bomb was bombed in "Apropo restaraunt" neer my father job. So dont say that we the Israelies are racist. murders and etc. Visit in Israel and you'll find that we are tye opposite to what you think and belive. I think that you should that many of the palestinian that you said that dont get rights like israelis. You Are right they dont get because live under the authority of Arafat and his council. They have there own ministers, TV, Harbor, international airfield, radio, internet, highly trained POLICE FORCE, plastinian NSA (the palastinian SHABAC) and etc. so dont say that they dont get rights like Israelis because th! ey dont get there rights from Israel but from Arafat. I know that most of the Israeli Arabs (they think that they are palastinians) prefer to live under Israel and not Under Arafat(they economical situation is much better then the one thay would have gpt under Arafat). Another thing The "WEST BANK". we didnt conqured it from the palestinians we took it from Jordan (The arab they we have good relationships) . Before the war that we conqred the WEST BANK, we asked from Jorden to stay out of the war but they entered to war and you see the results. Another thing we entered to lebanon because Arafat and his trrorists were there and send rockets to israel and bombed big shoping centers .So we entered to clear south lebnon from terrorists (BTW Arafat trained in lebanon the IRA, thats right) so stop this lies and tell the truth alexc****@yahoo.com Alex from Israel
The lack of safety you suffer from is a direct result of Israel's injustice against the Palestinians. The terrorism you suffer from is the minute, limited and impotent REACTION of a weak adversary, to a much more potent, on-going and serious Israeli terrorism -- uprooting, dispossession, torture, exploitation of labor, theft of water, closure, curfews, etc. The terrorism that Palestinians endure is many, many orders of magnitude bigger the one you suffer from. Thus, and more importantly, the solution to end Palestinian terrorism against you is not really a secret: you just have to eliminate its CAUSE -- Israeli terrorism against Palestinians and Arabs. Like many, you have fallen victim to a propaganda that reversed "cause" and "effect", and vice versa. Furthermore, to quantify the terrorism you have been suffering from, from the one "you" have been inflicting, let's do a body count!! From 1967 until today around 700 Israelis fell victims to terrorism (from all Palestinian factions: Hamas, Habash, Hawatmeh, Abu Nidal and other Abu's.) Compare that to Israel's "anti-terrorism" campaign in Lebanon: at least 20,000 deaths, which includes Sharon's massacre of 2000 Palestinian refugees in Sabra and Shatila. On the cause and effects issue, if you were to observe the pattern of Hamas terrorism, you would note how it changed DRASTICALLY following the settler Baruch Goldstein's massacre of 29 praying Palestinians, and Israel lack of action after it. Not to mention allowing for six years the shrine for the "saint" and "hero" Goldstein. (Had Goldstein been Palestinian, however, his family's house would be demolished, let alone his shrine). Count the terrorist actions and deadliness before and after that massacre and you'll begin to formulate a more accurate Cause and Effect sequence and thinking. Does Israel clamp down on settlers and disarm them, noting that many killings, terrorism, and water theft were committed by settlers in the past? No. Does Israel decide to end its illegal settlement colonies, a major cause of the conflict? No. In fact, it has increased settlement, by about 50% since the beginning of the "peace" negotiations. "Peace-lover" Barak has surpassed Netanyahu in allowing the expansion of settlements. Has Israel decided to end its confiscation policy, its theft of water, its occupation, ..... etc. No is the answer across the board. But the whole terror started with Israel's major sin in 1948 (when Arafat was a teenager, 15 years before there was a PLO) and Zionism's exclusivist ideology 50 years before that, against the Palestinian: namely, uprooting them from the land you now call yours. Until that issue is resolved JUSTLY, you'll continue to live in a "dangerous place." (Of course, the real dangerous place is where Palestinians live under occupation, in fear of demolition, indefinite and without-trial arrest, etc.) I must have gone through this issue about a million times on this page. Please look somewhere below for a more detailed answer.
    >I think that you should that many of the palestinian >that you said that dont get rights like israelis. You Are right they dont get >because live under the authority of Arafat and his council.
Palestinians fall under different category as far as who rules them. The majority live outside of Palestine/Israel in exile. The remaining are two groups, one living as Israeli citizens in Israel, and about 2.5-3 mil in WB and Gaza under Arafat. Those who live in Israel are discriminated against as "non-Jews" in jobs and allocation of funds to their towns, schools, etc. Those living under Arafat are being mistreated by Arafat's new dictatorship -- under Israeli pressure to muffle the population who is rightly angry at Israel's continuing occupation of their land under a sheep's clothing called the peace process. Likud and Netanyahu were honest enough to recognize Arafat as Israel's subcontractor, doing the torturing for them, and subduing any signs of uprising, while Israel builds more settlements and confiscates more land. In short, Israel used Arafat and Oslo as a cover for it to continue occupying and colonizing Palestinian land, and continue denying refugee rights, continue settlements and water theft, continue occupying and expanding Jerusalem into the WB.
    >Another thing The "WEST BANK". we didnt conqured it from the palestinians we >took it from Jordan (The arab they we have good relationships) .
West Bank was administered by Jordan due to a secret collusion-pact between pre-state Israel (Ben-Gurion and Co.) and Transjordan's King Abdullah, specifically to prevent the creation of a Palestinian state. Aside from the technicality --which you, and other supporters of Israel resort to, to deny Palestinians their identity and basic human rights-- the population of the West Bank was, and still is Palestinians, not Jordanian.
    >Before the war that we conqred the WEST BANK, we asked from Jorden to stay out >of the war but they entered to war and you see the results.
Jordan had a defense pact with Egypt, AND Israel knew that. By attacking Egypt Israel hoped to induce a Jordanian reaction. Like the Suez war and the provocative massive Israeli raid on Gaza preceding it (why didn't Ben-Gurion mention that raid in his memoir?), which was clearly aimed at provoking Nasser, the 1967 war was preceded by a massive raid by Israel on the West Bank town of Samu in Nov 66, not to mention the April 67 raid on Syria, in the suburbs of Damascus killing a 100 civilians. Aside from the reason of why Israel conquered the West Bank, what followed is more telling. I will put it in the form of questions for you, to stimulate a thinking outside of the the propaganda frame one is sometimes locked in. Why did Israel immediately begin building settlement colonies in violation of the 4th Geneva Convention, if all it was concerned about was repelling the Jordanian army and security? Why did Israel begin demolishing Palestinian homes after 1967, upwards of 17,000 within ten years, if her reason for occupying the West Bank (security) is true? Why did Israel begin denying residency rights to Palestinians in E. Jerusalem, thinning out the non-Jewish population slowly while pumping in Jews and transforming the city from Palestinian to Jewish? Why did Israel implement repression, torture and closures on the West Bank, and stole Palestinian water (today Israel takes 80% of WB water while Palestinians thirst)? Could it be that Israel just wanted that resourceful land, not to mention E. Jerusalem, Hebron, and other Jewish holy places (to give it "Jewish" legitimacy), and hence the Jordan "attack" was more of a pretext? Only when you start THINKING in a logical and humane way, placing yourself in a Palestinian's shoes, and analyzing, independently from the sea of propaganda around you, that you'll truly understand what the conflict is all about, instead of the "how many you and me killed" and hence what the solution entails. Best Sam

    5 Jul 2000 Once again, great job Sam. You are well informed and make allot of sense. i congratulate you on your logic, patience and above all, your eagerness to shed light on the unjustices of the area. I have been reading the feedbacks twice a week. i have two points i would like to pinpoint: 1- i am yet to read an "israeli" or "jewish" or "pro jewish" contribution that wasn't racist / hateful and / or superficial. the depth of the resources on your site pushes the well informed / educated "pro israeli" to shy away from contributing to this forum. facts are facts, and the truth could be hidden but never changed. 2- i am also yet to read a "pro arab" contribution that focuses on what must be done. all we read about is what happened and how brutal the enemy was. what is missing in this forum (as well as in the Arab world in general) is a solid united long term plan that will eventually bring back the rights, the lives and the dignity of the true victims. unfortunately, it ain't possible to plan or execute such a plan. it may require, above all, a new set of leaders in the arab world. I salute your eagerness and devotion. Good luck. Sam
Thank you friend for your support. Re. your first point: I too expected some more intellectual and serious challenges to the content of the site. What I got instead --and I do list ALL feedbacks I get, except VERY few irrelevant/redundant ones-- is racist and misinformed ones. Maybe what you said about the "well informed" is true. Re. your second point: What you say about Arabs is true in general. New Arab voices are beginning to emerge, however, to eloquently articulate the Arab case. Previously these were scared off by the powerful pro-Israel community in high places, and the deeply-entrenched Israeli propaganda about the whole conflict. Things are changing more and more, and people are getting more informed about the situation, which is a good step to help end the injustice. Having a united plan to end the injustice on part of the Arab world and leaders is good but is not necessarily enough, (not to mention that many Arab leaders have collapsing countries that they need to worry about.) The main thing, I believe, is to lobby American policy makers, like the pro-Israel community is doing, as well as make media contacts and write letters to the editors and OpEds. To do so, one must have a solid understanding of facts before (s)he can inform others. I tried to help with that part by building this site. Many people are still scared of being identified as Arabs or pro-Arabs, however, because of so much inculcated stereotypes and hate from hollywood and others against the Arab community. Best and thanks for writing. Sam

    4 Jul 2000 Dear Sam, I have nothing to do with this conflict. I am english, and always thaught that the victim of this conflict was Israel. One day a friend gave me the adress of your site , I decided to take a look. What I read that day last year on your site shocked me and sent shivers down my spine. How can things like this happen in todays so called Modern Global Community. The acts comminted against the Lebaneese and Palestinians is "INHUMANE" and unjust. When I read through the feedback section , It shows me how animalistic these people really are. Control of the world media can do allot for your Image. But sam maybee not in our lifetimes all of the Zionist leaders will appear in court and face the UNITED NATIONS and large prison sentances and perhaps death for their crimes against humanity. Then the largley blind world will stare in amazment (as most of the people in the world are sheep and dont know jack about jack). Untill then fight on. Your struggle and courage is a Inspiration to all "FREEDOM of SPEECH" lobbyists and supporters, WORLDWIDE. Because a religion is 'surposedly' gods chosen one, does it justify the people of that religion, to kill, steal and lie to acheive their goals. Witch is the liberation of all land that Jews have ever lived on. And to eliminate , one way or another the people that live there today. God Bless you Sam. Nick R****, England
Thank you for writing, dear sir. I am honored this site has benefited you and others in seeing through the mountains of propaganda, that Israel and its supporters have covered the truth with. Sadly, I doubt any of Israel's leaders will stand in front of a representative world body to answer for their crimes. The world body itself has put its interests before human rights of others, and is fearful of the powerful New World Orders of Washington, where the law of the jungle of might-is-right is the law of the land. Israel is supported by this mighty ruler of the jungle-world. So, if justice does take place, it won't be in our life time. Best Sam

    4 Jul 2000 I get nervous of people that know everything. Mostly they abuse that 'total' knowledge in the name of their god. Just look at the historie of the dark middle ages.
I certainly don't consider myself to know everything. What I do know and understand are only the basics of the Arab-Israeli conflict, of who the victims and victimizers are. And clarifying this basic facts is the mission of this site. My God is one of human rights -- for BOTH sides of the conflict. However, I am pushing the case for only one side, the Palestinians, because it is the weaker and continually victimized one. The other side, which happens to be the powerful of the two AND the victimizer, has been able, via deception, connections in media and high places, misrepresentation and lies, to make its fictional case factual, to turn the Palestinian victims into victimizers in the eyes of the world. Aside from this dangerous propaganda and lies spread by Israel and its cronies, this conflict --basically of one people coveting another's land, then conquering it and dispossessing the locals-- is not much different from "dark middle ages" ones you are talking about. The only difference from your assessment is that it is ISRAEL not "I" who are the victimizers; all "we" are trying to do here is end that victimization. Basic justice and reparation must take place before any solution to the Middle East conflict is reached. But one will not KNOW what this justice entails unless (s)he removes the layers of propaganda first and then learn the basic facts. This is where this site fits in. After understanding the truth, the solution will be clear. Best, Sam

    4 Jul 2000 One day your creator will tell you that you only preached hate and stupidity. Just hope he will blame it on stupidity and not on hate.
Why are you so sure this will happen to me? By all means, please let me know where you found hate --let alone stupidity-- on this site so I can remove it promptly. Sam

    4 Jul 2000 As an observer on the sideline, I have to commend you for the insightfulness that your web site provides from the various links you have relating to the mentioned articles and excerpts posted. I would like to point that I disagree that military or any form of conflict resolves any disputes, but should the matter require, it would best serve all fronts to exhaust the last possible means of achieving peaceful and righteous resolutions. Wars purpose is to serve only it?s own goals: WAR! In a nuclear world, the true enemy in war cannot be destroyed. Living in a world of chaos and disorder like the one we have allowed ourselves inherit, I choose to change the path of the past I am on so that the future will bring sour less fruits for the generations to come. Of all the wonders man has achieved during his existence, Science, Art, Technology, Communication, etc. he has yet to find the enlightened path he so desperately seeks to communicate his thoughts clearly. Instead of looking outwardly for solutions, we need to start looking within and ask our souls weather we should allow others to control us for the sake of material rewards or wither away like leaves off a tree for the better good of the future. Thanking you for reading, An Observer of Life.
    3 Jul 2000 Your site's name is "truth and justice in the middle east" but you forgot one minor detail.Israel is a small part of the middle east.The Arab world is the larger part.A question for you.Can you name ONE Arab country with full democracy and equel rights to women,non Muslims and free elections? (not the kind in Egypt where Mubarak wins 99% of the vote).Just one country.The Arab world has most of the brutal dictators in world like Assad,Sadam and Kadaphi,right.Did you know that Arab have more rights in Israel (they have parliament members)than in any Arab country.Lebanese were killed 10 times more in the civil war in Lebanon than by Israelis.
Actually, the subtitle, which you must've missed, clarifies what the title --with the few words allowed it-- doesn't. It is clearly stated below the title on the main/home page: "The Case Against Israel and the Destruction of Iraq; Facts Ignored or Manipulated by Western Media".
    >name ONE Arab country with full democracy and equel >rights to women, non Muslims and free elections?
Bringing up the well-known totalitarianism of the Arab states has become a smokescreen for Israel's defenders --for a lack of a better argument-- to divert attention from Israel's grave sins against the Palestinians and Arabs. To understand how ridiculous this smokescreen argument is, try applying it to Apartheid S. Africa: Replace Israel (appropriately) with the white Apartheid government, Palestinians with south african blacks, and Arab states with neighboring African dictatorships. Now try: "Can you name ONE African country with full democracy,.." as a defense line for Apartheid. Doesn't work, does it? In short, Arab/Palestinian non-democratic status doesn't justify their mistreatement/ enslavement and the theft of their land and property by Israel. Note that "local backwardness" argument was used by colonialists in previous few centuries.
    >Did you know that Arab have more rights in Israel (they >have parliament members) than in any Arab country
Did you know that a similar argument was used by some slave-masters to silence the complaints of their slaves? The common denominator missing, of course, is that how much rights an individual has must be judged relative to the environment where that individual lives. "Israeli Arabs" --i.e. the small minority of Palestinians who were not ethnically cleansed by Israel in 1948, and who are Israelis by citizenship-- have LESS rights than other Israelis living around them, who happen to be classified as "Jews". Even if we accept your argument for the "Israeli Arabs" rights, what remains is the MAJORITY Palestinians, who were ethnically cleansed and who aren't Israeli citizens. These often have less rights than their bretheren in Israel, and, to use your criterion, have less rights in comparison to their fellow Arabs in Arab countries -- primarily thanks to Israel.
    >Lebanese were killed 10 times more in the civil war in Lebanon than by Israelis.
So? And? Does this mean Israel can still kill 9-times more than it has before it can be faulted? Diverting the issue and changing the subject with such ridiculous arguments, might work in a safe pro-Israel forum, but it won't get you far in a non-Israel-propaganda environment. However, ironically, one of the main causes of the Lebanese civil war is .... yes (indirectly) Israel?!? Or rather, the Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, who were made refugees -- ie, ethnically cleansed-- by Israel. Nor can one discount the fact that destabilizing Lebanon and installing a puppet Maronite government has long been planned by Israel (see Moshe Sharett Diaries). Sam

    29 Jun 2000 You are a sorry piece of an Arab apologist. The contents on your site is about one step away from Holocaust denial material on some White Pride site. "Alliance between Nazism and Zionism" ??? You're embarassing yourself. Strange it's not mentionned how the Mufti of Jerusalem spent the war years in Berlin helping Hitler eliminate Jews and raise Waffen SS batallions from Muslim sectors of Bosnia. In any case, you're pathethic, hiding this site in the nice anonymousity of Geocities because anywhere else they'd make a monkey out of you. Good luck with rewriting history in the best Arab tradition and send my best greetings to Adolf, 'cause you'll see plenty of him in hell where you're headed. >You are a sorry piece of an Arab apologist.
Or you have been lied to about Israel and Zionism.
    >The contents on your site is about one step away from Holocaust >denial material on some White Pride site. "Alliance between Nazism >and Zionism" ??? You're embarassing yourself.
The fact that some White Pride and Holocaust denial sites use the information about Zionist-Nazi alliance to their ends, doesn't change the factual nature of this information. Nor does your unfamiliarity with it, or it being incredible. Indeed, Zionists (e.g. Ben-Gurion, Jabotinsky and the Stern Gang) did ally themselves with the Nazis/other fascist dictators before and during WWII. Shocking as it may be (and IT IS) but it is true. After all, the goals of both were similar: remove Jews from Germany. Without anti-Semitism, Zionism wouldn't have enough ideological power to sustain its existence. Ben-Gurion is on record saying that he would opt for saving half the Jews, provided they go to Israel, versus saving them all but have them go elsewhere. So, he and other Zionists looked at Jews as number boosters against the Palestinian population with their high birth-rate. There are several books on that, one by Lenni Brenner: "Zionism in the Age of the Dictators" and another by Edwin Black (?) "The Transfer Agreement". An easier path would be for you to take a deep breath, go back to the "Zionism I" page on this site, and read the articles on that issue. It is extremely tough to change one's mind about an emotional issue such as this, especially if one has been lied to all that time. But if the facts point to an unexpected/undesired/unpleasant path, one must lay his emotions aside and follow that path.
    >Strange it's not mentionned how the Mufti of Jerusalem spent the war years in >Berlin helping Hitler eliminate Jews and raise Waffen SS batallions from Muslim >sectors of Bosnia.
Not strange at all. The mission of this site is to expose the infinite crimes committed by Israel in the name of saving Jews from anti-Semitism. It's mentioned in the mission statement and about a dozen times here. You can also see my comments about the Mufti elsewhere in this feedback page. But whether he did or didn't ally himself with the Nazi (and he did, mostly to undermine British influence in Palestine) doesn't change the Zionist-Nazi alliance fact. I personally don't have much respect for the Mufti, by the way, nor did the vast majority of Palestinians in 1947 (99.7%) respond to his call to Sacred Struggle against Jews. Neither does his alliance justify what the Zionists did/continue to do to the Palestinians.
    >hiding this site in the nice anonymousity of Geocities because anywhere else >they'd make a monkey out of you.
You mean limit my freedom of speech? Shut the messenger because they can't refute the message? Anyone who fights for justice for the tormented Palestinians has to be familiar with that. Indeed, in many circles where Zionist interest groups have influence my site will not be allowed. On Israel and Zionism, it seems that only propaganda is permitted, thanks to many influential people and organizations who support Israel, RIGHT OR WRONG. Anyone who objects to Israeli treatment of Palestinians is immediately an "anti-Semite" and "supporter of terrorists". Such methods of silencing criticism unfavorable Israel are all too common. Our policy-makers have their coffers filled with pro-Israel money so they can't open their mouth, and many of our networks are owned or operated by pro-Israel individuals: Murdoch (Fox), Eisner (Disney/ABC), Rosenthal Safire, Friedman (New York Times), Zukerman (US News), Peretz (New Republic), are but few examples. The Internet is the only thing Zionism's tentacles couldn't control (so far), and it is the only means to help you wake up and see the truth, which is presently burried under mountains of propaganda that your letter above reflect.
    >Good luck with rewriting history in the best Arab tradition
Actually some of the best rewriting of Israeli/Zionist history is being done by Jews/Israelis. Lenni Brenner who wrote about Zionist-Nazi Zionist-Fascist alliance is one example. Many of the articles in this site are by Jewish sources. Check out Norman Finkelstein's monumental works (Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict), not to mention Noam Chomsky's, Israel Shahak's and Alfred Lilienthal's. You can also check out books by Israeli historians: Ilan Pappe, Tom Segev, Benny Morris, Avi Shlaim. They all proved that the truth is much farther from the Israeli version of events, and much closer to the Arab one. Good Luck, Sam

    29 Jun 2000 Who are you. It is not at all clear who, if anybody, you represent. Are you an organization, an individual? Yitzhak ben R.
I represent myself. --Sam

    26 Jun 2000 Thank you for a wonderful site. An oasis in the desert, really. One thing: if you have time and feels to do so ... why don't work on the layout of the texts. So they become more "reading-friendly" for the eyes. Shorter lines, more line space in the articles and bigger letters. Who are u? Greetingsd from Stockholm - Sweden Ammar M.
Thank you Ammar. I would like to improve this site, and I have (if you saw it two year ago you'll know what I mean.) But improving the looks usually means time off searching for and adding valuable info, and I would hate to do that. Best, Sam

    22 Jun 2000 Sam, I read most of the feedback and your responses to it. I see that your FACT-BACKED site has irked a lot of Israel's friends. I bet anything, they were spoonfed by the likes of the ADL, ZOA, AJC and AIPAC to send you outraged emails. In the case of the "concerned Canadian" who thought there was only 1% truth, I really laughed. These zionists just don't get it. You backed EVERY claim with solid data, articles from the Israeli press, quotes and comments from prominent American Jews, testimony from ex-politicians, historical facts, etc--- everything is rigorously checked and documented, and still, the obscene mouths cannot but spew a lethargy of pathetic tirades and excercises in futile hollow arguments. This has always been their tactics: Label, curse, scream... but NEVER engage in an intellectual debate by using logic and common sense. They know they cannot win by argument alone (read the "anti-Semite" label levelled at anyone who criticises Israel), and I challenge anyone who reads this web site to refute its hard facts with logical discourse and facts, not emotions and obscenity. Sam, you deserve a Nobel Prize for defending the truth! Samy
Thank you Samy for your very kind comments, praise and encouragement. What you say about the tactics of some in the pro-Israel community is very true. But what goes up ... Best, Sam

    22 Jun 2000 This is THE BEST SITE ON ZIONISM EVER!!!! Keep up the good work, and have great courage! zionism will eventually die!
    20 Jun 2000 Nazrala cus ouchtack ya maniak !!! fuck you [From an Israeli address]
    19 Jun 2000 This is an incredible site!!! Why don't you have an official host like www.zionismexposed.com or something close.
    14 Jun 2000 Fine webpage. That's democracy. There should represented be all fronts and all kind of opinions in our society. There is a certain degree of paranoia everytime somebody from media or public wants to uncover anything wrong in jewish or israeli activities at all. But unfortunately (for jewish people) this shrieking paranoia is only increasing the number of really annoyed people. Everytime I do read some hysterical articles (last time yesterdays cplumn in USA TODAY from intelligent ,rich but also very impertinent and arkward Mr. Ben Stein) accusing the entire world of cruel antisemitism I start to think over if the jews don't have got a really big part of their own to blame for certain uncomfortable feelings towards them in everydays life. If for instance I am beeing stupid arrogant and impertinent and I'll be slapped in face I'd be never blaming Moslems, Jews, or fanatic Christians but only me or certain particular persons. Finally, there is 5% jews in USA, but USA politics and life in so called "HIGH society" looks like there are 80% of population in USA only JEWS. And therefore I don't really understand the hysteria and paranoia of couple of them, because they probably never have lived in harter conditions to experience the real life, the real, hatred and real cincerity or warmth among common people regardless of beliefs. I am 30 ,network appl. specialist And I am not Moslem, nor JEW ,nor fanatic Christian.
    4 Jun 2000 I love this site, as Lebanese, I'm really impressed that there are some americans who are intersted in the truth Keep it up XXX
I am an Arab-American, to be precise. --Sam

    3 Jun 2000 i wish you die you fucking assholls i wish you will get your wives rapied isreal is the strongest nation in the middle east and we left south lebanon so we can atack you. you wouldn't dare to act against isreal. i wish the surien will leave you to kill one each other the "sunim" , "shiaim" , muslems and cristians
    1 Jun 2000 if israel got out of lebanon, you have to live her alone, don't you?
The reason "I am not leaving Israeli alone" is not because "she" was in Lebanon. Israel has committed a grave injustice against the Palestinians, that continues today. That injustice happens to be *THE* cause of the entire Arab-Israeli conflict. Even if Israel's sins were only against Lebanon, then withdrawal won't cut it. Israel has directly killed upwards of 20,000 people there, mostly civilians, with cluster, phosphoric, and implosion bombs, and destroyed part of the country's infrastructure. It committed massacres, took innocent hostages, and ran a torture camp. All in an attempt to wipe out the Palestinians as people with rights --by international law-- to live on the land where Israel was established as a country. The Lebanese civil war was partially triggered by the existence of Palestinians who were made refugees by Israel. That war has killed 150,000 people there. So, as a minimum, Israel needs to pay reparations; it must compensate the Lebanese people for the destruction and death it wreaked on their helpless country, and apologize for it, publicly. Kind of like what Germany has been doing for the Jews. Of course, after Lebanon comes Israel's prime sin -- the one it committed, and continues to commit against the Palestinians. A sin that it refuses to fix in any just way .... So, it seems that I "will NOT be leaving Israel alone" for a long time. Sam

    31 May 2000 I hate all the jew please send me more info to : [email protected]**********.com 10x one day we will kill them all
See response to previous poster.

    27 May 2000 Dear All, I understand that an eye for an eye will cause the world to be blind - people have died and will continue to do so whilst the 'peace process' is still under way. The Jews perhaps the minority have done to the Arabs what Hitler did to them - make them refugee, rape their sisters, daughters and mothers, agression, bomb innocent civilians, and general present a mirror image of that evil which nearly obliterated them (the only anti-dote to this disease) Today, 50 years on, they do not realsie that they have become this monster, recreating the Holocaust. Sympathy for the Jews is over-rated. My personal opinion would be to destroy completely the 'State of Isreal', eradicate all signs of Judaism on this earth including the elderly Jewish woman and the new born Jewish plague and get wild dogs to rape their sisters, mothers and daughters. Anyone professing the slightest inclination in favour of Jews should suffer a similiar fate. Give the Jews a taste, correction a 'spoonful' of their own medicine. Some-one with views who some may call sick, others may call a solution.
Hitler would agree with you. I sincerely hope there aren't many of you in this world.

    26 May 2000 Dear Sam, What is most shocking in reading these letters from your critics is the foul language that is so often used. It's as if they cannot argue the overwhelming evidence that you have gathered, so they resort to name calling. It reminds me a little of some of the pro-serb/anti-Albanian comments I had seen posted on websites during the Kosovo war. What characterized the majority of those messages was the violent and obscene language. I even remember seeing one of those types of posts on the web site of Senator Boxer from California. The writer made some vulgar, perverted and sexually suggestive comments to her. It was the first time I had ever seen anyone talk that way to a United States senator. Of course, many innocent Serb people suffered in that conflict, and you have to feel sorry for them. But that type of language coming from Serb supporters didn't really help their cause, either. (Did you know that Ariel Sharon took Milosovic's side in that conflict? Why is that not surprising?) So don't feel too bad when you read those types of comments. If anything, it just reflects poorly on the writers themselves, especially those who are claiming the "land" on the basis of being the "chosen people." They themselves defeat their own arguments when they use such filthy language. Sincerly, A friend
Thank you friend for your support --Sam

    25 May 2000 Hi, Sam Thanks for your informative WEB site. I was glad to find more about situation in Lebanon. I also have a question: do you (personally) believe that Hezbollah will tolerate the existance of Israel if (hypotetically speaking) Israel will return all the lands? (Gaza, Golan Heights, Samaria etc.) I know this is not likely to happen, but what I'm trying to bring up here is that the TRUE goal of Hezbollah and few other similar "organizations" is a destruction of country of Israel and its people (remember that slogan "we'll throw jews to the sea!"). I realize that there ARE some moderate arab leaders who truly want to live in peace with the state of Israel, but they are certainly in minority. I'm jewish, living in States, who has friends and relatives in Israel (and not all of them are Zionists, trust me). In no way am I willing arabs and palestinians to suffer, and in fact, I know lots of Israeli citizens of arabic decent who are lovely people. I also know that not all of the arabs l! iving in Israel share the views and goals of Hezbollah. How would you explain that fact?? I will be really happy to hear from you! If you are able to "persuade" me that Hezbollah is non-terroristic organization, willing to live in peace with all the neighbors (incl. Israelis) once/when they have all the land issues settled - I'll be REALLY happy. Hope to see your respond soon! Good luck, George Boston USA.
Dear George Thank you for writing. You are commended for sincerity and desire for peace. I have a similar question for you -- in response to yours: "do you believe Israel has a TRUE desire to live in peace --based on justice-- with the Palestinians/Hizbollah/Arab neighbors?" As much as it is uneasy for you to accept whether Hizbollah resistance
in turn have acted on cue from Israeli leaders-- is interested in genuine peace with Israel, likewise, it the uneasy for me to accept that Israel is truly interested in peace. The difference is that Israel's conquest came first, THEN Hizbollah's resistance second, which clearly gives more support to my distrust of Israel than your distrust of Hizbollah. Remember, Hizbollah is a byproduct of Israel's bloody aggression on Lebanon. Before 1982 there were no Hizbollah -- whose activity were totally sanctioned by International law as resistance to occupation, not terrorism. The same international law that condemned Israel more than any other state in history for its activities in Lebanon and other occupied territories. So, it is because of so much media slant and bias that you are asking me the wrong question, of whether Hizbollah --normal human beings with similar genuine desire for justice and living peacefully as Israelis-- instead of Israel, wants truly to live in peace with its enemy. To understand the origin of the statement "we'll throw Jews to the sea!" you have to really understand the history of the conflict and perhaps some Arab culture. First, the reality today is that it is Israel that "has thrown the Palestinian to the sea"! With the majority of Palestinians being refugees festering somewhere and dispossessed, oppressed, and denied basic justice, this statement is not an exaggeration. So, you have on one side Arab rhetoric (often quoted by pro-Israel individuals, as a sign of Arab belligerence) versus Arab action. Arab words versus actions are almost an exact opposite of Israel's words versus actions. If you visited an Arab country and spent sometime learning their culture, you'll understand that the threatening words of Arabs are mostly benign, serving only as a public display of strength. Often those who speak the loudest and pretend to be tough, are perceived as such. (Look for example at Arafat during one of his interviews telling the reporter, in a tough language, "do you know who you're talking to?" That's a sign of toughness and preserving one's honor). It is not necessarily proper or right to do so, but if viewed out of its cultural context, it can easily be misinterpreted by an observer as an indication of hostility. While the Arabs speak tough words as a sign of muscle, their action are actually very much reserved. Israel on the other hand, speaks about peace, but acts the opposite: as a conqueror, claiming that its conquest are a response to Arab "aggression" -- aggression largely based on Arab rhetoric! Israel understood that formula, as well as western culture's perception of hostile language, and used it to further its supposed victim-acting-in-self-defense status in the eyes of the world. This is perhaps best illustrated by the propagation of the "throw the Jews to the sea", statement. Actually, it was reported that whenever Israel publicly spoke about peace, Egyptian president Nasser would put his military on high alert for an imminent Israeli aggression! The only war that the arabs were "aggressors" was 1973 when actually it was a war to liberate 1967-Israel-conquered land, NOT ENDANGER Israel. Israeli leaders openly admit that. Now, on to some quick historical perspective regarding Hizbollah/Israel/ Palestinians. Israel has committed a grave injustice towards the Palestinian, mainly, and Lebanese and other Arabs secondly, in the name of self defense. Israel has ethnically cleansed Palestine (not just my words, but those of Israel's historians) of most of its Palestinian population and then demanded security from the people whose livelihood it stole and continues to steal today via home demolition, and land confiscation. If you disagree with me on that premise --that the Palestinians are victims, while Israel is a victimizer-- and you don't want to hear anything telling you that Israel is an aggressor, then we're done talking, because no use discussing something that will not help you change your mind. Otherwise, if you are willing to listen, then please study Zionism and Israel's behavior from the sources I have provided, starting with the 1948 war, from the newly opened Israeli archives (upon which, the historians, Benny Morris, Ilan Pappe, Tom Segev, Avi Shlaim, based their famous books). Once you agree with me --based on facts and your belief in basic fairness as prerequisite for living in peace with your neighbors-- you'll realize why it is the Palestinians and Arabs in general who are more justified than Israel in suspecting their enemy's desire to live in peace. To further explain the situation, an independent observer, recording all of the recent history of the area, would see that: The bad actions and words by Palestinians/Hizbollah/Arabs that you cite, ("throw the Jews to the sea") and Palestinian terrorism, are REACTIONS of an oppressed, but weak victim, to injustice inflicted --and continues to be inflicted-- by a regional super-power
throughout the past 50 years), then asking whether the Palestinian/Arabs want to "throw Israel to the sea" is like asking whether the ant wants to crush an elephant. True peace must be preceded by sincere basic justice. I say basic because there is no way to give Palestinians full justice for what they have been through at the hands of Zionists. So, I speak of BASIC justice, which includes ending Israeli settlements and confiscation of land and demolition of Palestinian homes, sharing Jerusalem and the rest of Palestine/Israel including resources such as water, equally, with the Palestinians. Above all, compensate and allow the return to the millions of Palestinian refugees that were dispossessed by Israel. It is ONLY after Israel pursues such a peace, founded on basic justice and respect for the Palestinians, that one may observe and judge for him/herself whether Hizbollah/Palestinians/Arab can be trusted to want to live in peace. The bad news, sadly, is that these pillars of justice, comprising a resolution of the Israel-Palestine conflict, fall within what Barak and Netanyahu call Red Lines or "four no's" (No to removing settlement colonies, no to sharing Jerusalem, no to return to the June 4th line, no to return of refugees). So, the conflict does and will continue. Like I did to a previous reader, I here conclude with a reference to an important article by an ex-Israeli soldier, to give you one idea about how to resolve this conflict. I suspect you have seen it, because it was published recently by a major daily, local to you. Here's the Boston Globe's article in question. If you are interested, I can refer you to Jews in your area (Boston) who are actively working for Palestinian justice. You should seriously think about meeting and talking to them. The experience will enlighten you. I sincerely wish you the best of luck in finding out the truth. SAM


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